Conspiracy Talk Archive October 11 2012

 

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11 Oct 2012 23:24:28
whats everyones thoughts on the fantastic gary mckinnon?

legend

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No he's not. Hackers are the of the earth.

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Geeky nerd, no more no less!!

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Geeky nerd.....ha ha so what are you doing looking him up on google then?

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11 Oct 2012 23:13:07
i'm not trying to start an argument here, i'd just like to know how many people believe in religion and how many do not. I myself do not, and find it hard to understand why people do.

Hit 'Agree' if you are a believer and hit 'Disagree' if you're not.

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I disagree with religion, come on now, we humans cannot fathom who/what/when/how "god" is.

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.
Something cannot come from nothing.

both of them statements apply to both God and the big bang theory.

We'll see when we die what the truth is.

Plain Taunt Hall

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I don't know how you find it hard to believe how people believe in religion mate. I myself hit the disagree button and have some strong views of the subject, however, it is obviously ingrained in people from a young age from parents and other 'role model' figures for lack of a better word.

Scare tactics such as Heaven and Hell is what it's all based around. They scare a kid enough into thinking they must do good or be punished, especially by a 'higher power' and then mould them around Christian believes. Obviously different scenarios for different religions.

I think this link aimed it up well. Some may get offended so heads up

God is for idiots - Jim Jefferies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TynFaEQj_Ys&sns=em

Melbourne CFC

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Plain Taunt Hall if you don't believe in religion, how do you figure that we will see what happens when we die? If you don't believe in religion when you die, you die, so u wont know if anything happens. If you do believe then there is the whole life after death thing where u go up or down or reincarnated as a giraffe maybe. From your reply it comes across as you are unsure about that side of things

Aaron

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I wanted to press disgree but I am afraid God will get angry.

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Can i believe in a greater power than a human being (cant tell you what it is or what i would call it but a bit like the "force" in star wars obviously without moving objects!) without being religious?

Supasub

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Ok , kind of along a theme , it must have been done on here before but whats everybodys thoughts on life after death?? What happens when we die??
Hunter.

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If the Hindu's can believe in Vishnu (just an example, not having a dig at Elephants) I think you are in the clear there Supasub!

Melbourne CFC

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I think after we die we gt buried or cremated. None of this heaven/hell malarky. Do religious believing people generally believe in the spiritual world more than atheists!

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We're just a very advanced version of the sims, its all a computer simulation...
clt

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There is a distinct difference between following an organised religion and believing in or knowing there is a higher power at work. You guys seem to think these 2 things overlap. I know there is a higher force but I am not religious is the slightest.

Some people name this higher power God, some people call it other things but essentially there is a higher intelligence that has created us...this cannot be denied.

The big bang theorey is the single most ridiculus notion I have ever come across. So from this explosion and evolution the sun and the moon just happen to be exactly the right distance from earth so that the planet is habitable, humans just happen to have all the necessary reproductive organs so that we can multiply and the earth jus happens to have all these natural resources i.e water, oil, fruit and vegetables; all the things we need to survive...I could go on for days but my point is that I find it so totally unbelievable that anybody could deny that we have been created and put here on earth.

There are too many "coincidences" and the only logical explanation is that there is intelligent design at work.

Just look at the human body and our mind and our brains. The millions of electrical signals, blood cells and hundreds of other intricate parts of our bodies that need to be in tandem for us to survive and you think this just happened due to some kind of big bang? Its pure fiction and doesnt make any sense...in life when something doesnt make sense then it usually isnt right.

Its quite funny how all you guys are saying that religious people are brainwashed when in fact it is you who has been brainwashed by the education system into believing such nonsense as the big bang theorey. Its quite ironic.

Yes organised religion is man-made and all these stories of heaven and hell are a figment of peoples imagination but let me tell you something, there is no denying that there is a higher power at work.

Whether you decide to call it God is your business but you cannot explain things like dreams and our consciousness on the big bang theory, its insane.

Why dont all you guys that have strong views against religion or god or spirituality actually spend a few hours doing some intelligent reading and you will find that most of what you have been taught about science and religion at school is more or less redundant.

Deano {Ed001's Note - seriously, your notion that it couldn't happen by chance is ridiculous. There are an infinite number of stars, planets and moons, of course there will be some who just happen to be the right distance to make it habitable. I seriously worry for you if you can't see. By the same token, it is possible that it is the work of intelligent design or even a mix of the two. But it is absolute nonsense to suggest it couldn't possibly be coincidence.}

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You seem to have conveniently skipped the part of my post relating to the human body and mind...so are you saying that it is possible that the way our body functions with all the millions of cells that need to be in sync for us to function is just pure coincidence? Thats absurd.

Granted it could be a coincidence that our planet is aligned perfectly with the sun and the moon but to then say that the way our bodies are composed is coincidence aswel thats 2 coincidences mate. Its beyond ridiuculus if you are suggesting these two things are coincidence alone.

So by you guys theory I could leave a centimetre of bacteria on my kitchen table and if we could fast forward a hundred million years that bacteria would have evolved into a fully functioning human being? The idea of evolution is farcical.

You've been brainwashed and you dont even know it. Im fed up of people looking their noses down religious people. The only reason you support the big bang theory is because that is what you have been taught all your life, it is not because you have sat down and investigated for yourself because if you had you would know that the big bang is complete fiction.

The powers that be do not want us to know that we have infinite power, they want to chain us to this 3d world...it bugs me when clearly intelligent people like you Ed are so misguided.

Even if I had unwavering proof that the big bang was nonsense you wouldnt accept it, just like if you tell a christian that Jesus didnt exist no christian would accept it. You guys go on like you are so different from people that follow religion when in fact you are all the same; brainwashed beyond hope.

Deano {Ed001's Note - er no, you are the misguided one, I never said I supported the big bang theory, I do wish you religious types would stop assuming, because you haven't a clue. You are the brainwashed one, I merely said it was possible, as there are infinite worlds, so it follows, there are infinite chances of that happening. Your whole post is predicated on some nonsense ideal of there being a very limited number of worlds, meaning the chances of any coincidences being extreme. But there are numberless worlds, meaning numberless chances, so the chance of these coincidences is uncountably high. You have conveniently skipped the use of common sense and replaced it with blind faith.}

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I prob mentioned this a few times , i come from a catholic family went to catholic school,made communion/confession blah blah and wanted my kids to go to a catholic schools, i prob done like most of us pray for help in bad times, its just inbred in us to naturally think like that,now i don't think there is any type of god,something very intelligent created us that we cant comprehend and when we die we evolve a bit like Caterpillar evolving in to a butterfly , that's my take on it .
frankyscouse

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I AM NOT RELIGIOUS.

Why do you keep referring to me as a "religious type". I quite clearly pointed out that religion is a total nonsense in my previous post so what are you going on about?

Mate this is why I cant have a constructive debate with people like you. You dont listen, absorb and digest you just talk rubbish.

Im clearly way beyond anything you can handle so i'll leave you be mate.

You havent answered any of my questions or challenged any of the comments in my posts so this is just a waste of my time.

Deano {Ed001's Note - actually I have, you are the one not able to absorb what is being said. I have answered your questions, whereupon you have resorted to shouting me down as you are unable to counter my points. Your problem is that you have a closed mind and are unable to accept any other point of view, so constructive discussion is impossible as you do not have the capacity to discuss things or see other viewpoints. Instead you will jump onto the defensive, become abusive and make up complete and utter lies about what has happened. If you read back, you would see that the only person talking rubbish is you. Clearly you are the one who is unable to handle it, but then I would accept no better of someone unable to realise that their every point has been countered and they are just making themselves look completely ridiculous.}

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Which points have been countered?

All you've said is that there are numerous possibilities amongst numerous universes and that the alignment of our planet could be coincidental.

I fail to see how these two comments have countered anything I have said.

You should take a look in the mirror because that post you have just written is exactly my feelings towards you...closed minded and the inability to accept alternative modes of thought.

Funny how you are trying to project your own inadequacy onto me.

I have not been abusive in the slightest. I find it interesting how you Eds seem to always use that line when you are on the backfoot.

All I am trying to do is open your mind to the possibility that evolution in the conventional sense and the big bang is not correct just because society says it is.

Why cant two people ever exchange ideas without it turning into a slanging match?

You have your ideas of how the world works and I have mine, there is no way to determine who is right or who is wrong.

I just want you to be wary that your comments could be seen as derogatory to those that hold certain religious beliefs. Its not fair to just dismiss people as "religious fanatics" just the same way as it not fair for me to dismiss the idea of the big bang.

Deano {Ed001's Note - are you really being serious? You really have completely missed the point. As for my own inadequacy, I am not the one who keeps talking about it, clearly it is not me who has those issues. I am not sure where you get the idea I am on the backfoot, but you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about things. You still have not answered how it is impossible for a coincidence to happen when there are infinite worlds, you don't even seem to understand the point I made, sadly.}

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Mate everyone is going to read our posts...Im embarrassed for you.

Of course I understand coincidences can happen but you cant just go into a courtroom for example and say "oh its just a coincidence that my DNA was found on the scene" You have to provide sufficient enough evidence and information to support what you are saying.

You have in no way shape or form volunterred or offered anything to this discussion other than "its a coincidence, coincidences happen" You sound juvenile.

You dont seem to understand what I am saying and this is demonstrated in you referring to me as a religious type when I have clearly stated I am not so do not tell me I do not understand when it is abundantly obvious to anyone that will read this discussion that you have a problem processing basic information.

"its just a coincidence"....thats your argument in a nutshell and you expect me to take you seriously?

Im embarrassed that i've entertained this conversation for this long.

You are beyond hope.

Deano. {Ed001's Note - I will explain this slowly for the hard of thinking, as you clearly need some help understanding what has been said. There are an infinite number of worlds. That creates an infinite number of chances of an infinite number of worlds being capable of bearing life. Are you following so far? That's even if we suppose that life needs the conditions we do to support it, which clearly isn't true as we have many forms of life on this planet that have no need of the same conditions humans require. Anyway, back to the idiots guide to chance, we now have an infinite chance of infinite worlds being capable of bearing life. Which creates an infinite number of chances that life will happen by pure chance. Also an infinite number of chances that intelligent life will appear. So, anyone with an IQ that is capable of intelligent thought, will have to understand that it is very possible that it was pure chance. Also, by the same token, there is no way of ruling out the possibility that we are here due to intelligent design. Now do you understand? Or would you like to post up more lies and untruths about what other people have said because it has all gone over your head and you prefer to throw your toys out of your pram rather than trying to educate your mind and understand what they have in fact said? I am glad you are embarrassed, I would be embarrassed if I was you too.}

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Melbourne its not just Christians though its Jewish and Muslim as well. And probably every other religion in the world, that have these concepts of a "good" afterlife and a "bad" afterlife. Just look at the Norse Valhalla and the Greek Hades, so its not just montheistic religions either.

Supasub, agreed thats more my own thinking as well.

Deano, reagrds the coincidence of alignment, its known fact that there is a habitable zone of a certain distance away from a star that if a planet is in that zone then there is a good chance life can occur. Bear in mind the trillions of stars i existance and then all the number that have planets then there is a good chance of having planets in those zones. I did see some exact figures somewhere which i'll put up later if thats ok ed?

Moving onto evolution, life has existed for hundreds of millions of years, so how can something not evolve? The fossil record is full of deadends of creatures that did not work out.

This is a serious point but one of the ebst books i read on this subject was Terry Pratchett's The Science of Discworld. Seriously have a read it could answer your questions.

Mort

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I believe in god but not religion
LP

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Prehaps something does happen when we die... but why would this mean it has to be something to do with religion

jag_reddog

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...and at last we have an adult, coherent and well-delivered, albeit condescending, response from Ed.

Okay I get it. I still dont believe that our existence is the result of coincidence and chance but I definately feel what you're saying is useful.

Mort of course organisms evolve but answer me this:

If I leave a centimetre of bacteria on my table and we could fast forward a few hundred million years would it evolve or have the capacity to evolve into a human being? This is what the theory of evolution is suggesting and I reject this totally.

Deano {Ed001's Note - I never said it was, I was just explaining why it can't just be dismissed out of hand! Like I said, both theories are possible, neither can be proved or disproved, which is why I will just sit on the fence until one seems more likely. Certainly evolution has a large number of holes in it, as it stands, again though, it is impossible to prove or disprove. So it stays as a possible theory to be considered and discussed but not yet dismissed.}

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Deano it would possibly evolve into something, who knows what. Who says that humans are the pinacle of life anyway.

i notice you skipped past me on the goldilocks zone bit.

I can suggest an entertaining website that explores this sort of thing:

rise-and-fall-of-alien-civilizations-in-our-own-galaxy.com

On there they work out that in our galaxy alone there are potentially 100's of BILLIONS star systems capable of supporting life and thats our galaxy alone. never mind the 100's of them seen in the very long range pics from Hubble....

Mort

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The exchange between Deano and Ed001 is exactly what happens when religion and science are brought into the conversation. Both subjects have plenty of bullsh*t knocking about, but bring them together and, ironically, you get a big bang.

Aaron

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Science isn't bullsh!t by definition.
Religion is a method of control.
Owls and sheep
Liono

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I think Deano has made himself look a right tit there. Religion is simply a device invented by people to justify the killing of innocent people. The crusades were "Killing in the name of God" - a piss poor way of justifying slaughtering masses of innocent people.

KiwiRed

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Aaron, mate, I didn't say I dont believe in god. I just don't believe in any man made religion. Also, if there isn't a god whose to say there isn't an after life.

Like I said, we'll when we die.

Plain Taint Hall

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I think that religion is wrong and agree it is just a way of controlling people but I do believe in god
LP

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SERIOUSLY THOUGH WE MIGHT BE IN A COMPUTER SIMULATION! why does no one find this interesting? for those that do heres a link to an interview with rich terrile NASA scientest who has found evidence that we are in fact in a super advanced computer simulation. http://www.vice.com/read/whoa-dude-are-we-inside-a-computer-right-now-0000329-v19n9

clt

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Ed, didn't you say a while ago you believed an afterlife is possible because of a sudden weight loss people have when they die?

I agree with Supasub's opinions and if there is a creater, we humans wouldn't have worked him/her/it out at all, which is why I don't follow a religion. However, I think some form of conscious creater of the universe is no more unplausible than emerging from nothing.

Adam {Ed001's Note - until it is proven otherwise, I will always believe something is possible.}

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Shows u have f----d up the world is about any religious beliefs that a post causes this much reaction .
frankyscouse

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PTH sorry mate I misread it.

Franky I've said it before on here, religion is a massive money maker and argument starter.

Aaron

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Ok here is my philosophical viewpoint god or Buddha or any other religious person that people deem to be all seeing all doing well in people's mind is just their need to understand their linear existence. Don't get me wrong there is a source power but (sitting outside of the box) we look at life as a start and finish tbh no human can think of infinite being but try as hard as I can I can not come to a better solution or conclusion whilst I don't understand it we just ARE whilst we have a life expectancy we view life and the Afterlife that way, but in reality who knows. Even at the worse.View we are just stardust. Go figure. Ramble over comments more than welcome. Peace

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11 Oct 2012 16:36:34
xat.org

Click on 'History of Money'. Excellent link showing the evolution of money, the power of a few and how we are in this current financial down turn.

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I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent omnipotent god
Would have designedly created parasitic wasps
With the express intention of their feeding on the living bodies of caterpillars

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11 Oct 2012 10:16:41
Back in on the time travel.....It really trips me up thinking about it it is just so complex and I don't see how it's a hearing aid it the vid but something weird I think is going on there....it looks like when she looks at camera she kinda is like .....crap beta go now haha ....no it is to complex and trips me up to much to get into detail haha

Billy the CFC supporter

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Yes Billy, do you not remember us talking about it this time next year!

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11 Oct 2012 09:56:17
Sorry Ed/Everyone to take this to a footballing subject.
Anyone who visit's this page regularly will know I've got a bee in my bonnet about the current Barca era and their crop of player's including the development of Mr messi, based on the fact they seem to be all slightly muscular nippy midget's who rarely seem to get injured and can play lot's of games during a season ,maintaining amazing level's of play for an entire match.
It turns out that (banned for life) Lance Armstrong's main medical chief Dr Luis Garcia del Moral (also now banned for life) was according to his office a medical advisor to Barca over the past decade.
Only reported yesterday that Barca have come out and only denied that he was ever on the payroll after checking their record's but could not guarantee that he had not been used by the club or player's on an ad hoc basis (based on the fact his name did'nt appear on the payroll).
They added that they have just recently changed their medical set-up but failed to answer when asked who was now managing it. It does'nt seem to be reported in our country though and what does it take to get a club or player's investigated. Real Madrid first arose suspician's about Barca a few year's ago and they were dismissed as being jealous of Barca's success. I've always liked the way they pass without the play acting and face holding but I've always had a gut feeling that they've had something in their half-time orange's so to speak. That and with alleged payment's to FIFA officials daughter's account by the then chairman along with some very favourable refereeing decision's which is all yet to really come out, how much suspicion can a club arouse before it's seriously looked at? Mr Blatter?
Discuss.....

Supasub

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I'd like to ad that its been described as the most sophisticated drugs programme in sport regarding Armstrong and his medical team. If it were proven that any football club has committed these sort of offences then they'd surely be stripped of titles. Personally I think it may be rife in football more so in some countries especially in Italy where many chairman can't even lie in bed straight aswell as Spain. It won't appeal to the authorities to scrape away at the surface unless they are made too.

Supasub {Ed001's Note - it has already been proven to exist in Italy, it was mostly swept under the carpet rather than dealt with.}

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I always had an inkling that they were cheating. But in more conventional ways (bribing referees, etc)

Percy

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Well the diving and rolling around clutching their faces was bad enough. Then comes all the dodgy decisions, largely against english clubs.

I doubt anything will ever happen, but agreed would be entertaining.


Ed were you referring to the nandrolone scandel in italy? Davids and a few others failed drugs tests and got sent to bed with no supper it was that farcial. {Ed001's Note - there was so much more to it, it was a proven, calculated system of cheating - in a similar vein to this current Lance Armstrong one.}

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But as it was hushed up so uch of the details never came out or are not well known.

I'm not saying the prem is squeeky clean but compared to serie a...

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Great post Supasub, very interesting reading. I heard about the link between Armstrong's doctor and Barca a week or so ago on the radio and instantly remembered you getting banned from the United page ages ago for bringing up conspiracies, lol - straight away I knew that must have been what you were on about all those months ago! Well good work on the research. I won't believe anything fully until proven but it's a shame it's ulikely any1 will take it upon themselves to investigate Barca

Gav

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Supasub you clearly dont watch much Spanish football as Barca have had probably more players injured ( with the exception of messi) than any team in la liga.... Puyol Pique to name but two have been in and out of the team for the last Two seasons due to injury.... David Villa leg break , Ibesta hamstring i could go on and on to prove your original post is flawed at best!! Messi on the other hand is rarely injured this may be luck it may be the fact he was on steroids to make him grow who knows for sure..... A conspiracy? Doubtfull

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Puyol's and Villa's injuries were so severe that no amount of boosts could have prevented them.

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It's not about injuries, it's about the doctor who was used on a "ad hoc" basis.

Supasub

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"No name" I think your missing the point, the only thing you mention in your post is about what could knock me on about injuries, there were also rumours that Abidal was infact very ill because doping and not what was reported exactly. Anyway I'm sure if it did come out you'd be fine with it anyway I presume?

Supasub

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Haha, because David Villa breaking his leg proves theres no drugs taken at Barca...wtf! Also, Messi, Xavi and Iniesta have been there for years together since the youth teams so would be more likely to be exposed to any 'special tactics' they adopt than player's brought in from elsewhere IMO.

Gav

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A certain Pep guardiola tested positive for nandrolone when at Brescia but somehow he sort of went un-punished due to some sort of technicality, the club doctor (don't have a name but its out there) was a couple of times at clubs where players tested positive for steroids, this same doctor is also currently one of the club doctors at Barcelona! There are a few accusations from last year believed to be started by Real that since 2008 Xavi, iniesta, Messi have hardly ever been injured or really fatigued even when in a Barca team that Pep didn't rotate, but were always regularly injured before then FYI.
There are other doctors aswell linked who (fuertes I think is one) they've treated the Spanish national football team, Nadal, Tiger Woods to name a few clients.

Supasub

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I believe a certain Lionel Messi was on growth hormone as youngster at Barca which i'm pretty sure is a banned substance in sport.

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Messi took growth hormones

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After watching Charlie adam tonight, I can honestly say hand on heart that this guy does not take any banned substances, but if anyone could pass on Lance's phone number to him I would be grateful. TA.

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Haha very good.

Supasub

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Iniesta is an has been injured quite regularly in fact

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