Conspiracy Talk Archive January 14 2013

 

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14 Jan 2013 20:02:23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6fvFVVEG5Q

really interesting conspiracy on the Sandy Hook killings and just wanted to see what other people thought of it?

Vincent

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Look at the batman films and obama

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Yeah I've seen the batman case as well. regarding the Morgan vs Alex Jones "debate" (although it is far from that), I have to be honest that at first I was inclined to agree with Piers. But although Alex Jones did an awful job in my opinion (I'm not sure I buy the 'he did it because he didn't think he had another option') he is right. one of my favourite quotes is "if we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them" and its true. guns aren't the main problem, the people pulling the triggers are. although after watching these conspiracy videos, its hard to say who these people are

Vincent

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15 Jan 2013 00:46:50
Vincent so you condone ordinary citizens having the sort of weapons that wouldn't look out of place in call of duty modern warfare in their homes? I've seen these pro gun people saying stuff like it wouldn't have happened if the teachers had been armed! Arming teachers! And what happens when an armed teacher has a nervous breakdown and machine guns his class? This problem started by allowing people to have guns in the first place. Ordinary people had handguns to protect person and property. So what did the outlaws do? Went and got bigger guns. Till now they all have assault rifles. Constant escalation caused this problem. And its justified in a law thats over two hundred years old dating to a time when most of the country hadn't been settled by europeans and hostile natives were all around. Then there was a need for the right to bear arms. Not now there isn't! They need to toughen up possession laws, ban the sale of automatic rifles and assault rifles and put in place proper checks. Deescalate the situation. How many more children in body bags will it take for commonsense to kick in?

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To be honest I agree with most of what you said. No teachers should not be allowed to have guns. And I would like to see much MUCH tighter gun control, I'm just saying that I am opposed to a wholesale ban on guns. But I think the point that I'm making which you missed is that people who commit these crimes, they won't stop doing them if guns are banned. They will just find a new solution to obtaining guns. If you're a gunman and want to shoot a school/building etc, a law saying you are not allowed to have a gun is not going to stop you

Vincent

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Totally agree with you Vincent it is alien for us( British ) to be able t buy any type of gun and we jump the bandwagon that the USA is full of macho gun slinging cowboys when in reality it is not, don't get me wrong i would feel uneasy about guns being allowed at any school but like a few of my american mates have said its the person behind the gun not the gun that is the problem, not sure how long guns have been banned here to be honest i don't think guns have ever been allowed for sale here unless you were a farmer or been very wealthy and go hunting, my point is shooting happen in our country every week, mostly drugs related so there are ways and means if you are a criminal, if as some people say that Obama tells the USA public that they have to hand guns in then the s h .t will hit the fan.good post vincent.

frankyscouse {Ed001's Note - when guns are tightly controlled and the police etc do not have them, then criminals don't need guns to commit a crime. Before the police got guns, most hold ups were at knifepoint or people were attacked with bats, rather than the now obligatory guns. Only the worst of the crims used guns. While it didn't stop people getting hurt, it lowered the damage done massively, as well as lowered the risk to bystanders. Having a gun at home just increases the chances of a criminal wanting a gun to commit a crime, it does nothing to reduce the risk of you being robbed at all.}

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Edd valid points but that's a British point of view, we all think think its over the top for a normal person to have a gun at home but its not our culture Americans have had guns for hundreds of years and 99 per cent of legally owned gun holders are responsible, you mention knives bats for robberies all can kill and our knife crime is way above the USA another point edd is mexico has a ban on guns and because of the poverty they obtain guns for drugs and robbery .i can see your point edd but i can see the normal gun holders of the USA point .

frankyof to the gym scouse {Ed001's Note - I am sorry but their culture has nothing to do with it. 99% of legal gun owners are responsible? Can you prove that? Because I know a lot of legal gun owners in this country and not one I would consider anything other than dangerous and that is why they own a gun in the first place! Why would you want one if you didn't intend on using it? Yes our knife crime is higher, but our gun crime is much lower than the USA, is that not better? It is a lot more difficult to go on a rampage in a school with a knife than a gun! Yes a knife and bat can kill, but they aren't going to kill in the same numbers. Like someone said earlier, it is an escalation to move to a gun. Bring it down as low as possible, because there will always be violent crime, so you just have to limit its effects as much as you can.}

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15 Jan 2013 12:17:30
Vincent i understood your point. Yes the person behind the gun is to blame, but why make it so easy for people to get guns? I agree criminals will always get guns. But if you make it harder to get a gun, tougher checks, outlaw certain types of guns then it becomes harder, even as a criminal, to get one. Would it not also drive the black market price up as well making it harder to get one and maybe putting some off getting one? Its supply and demand, there's a glut of legal guns so the price is driven down. My main point is that why do people feel the need to own an assault rifle in their home? At the very least ban assault rifles, pump action shotguns etc. Lastly if you look at all these school shootings over the years how many have been carried out by criminals? To my knowledge none. There all done by angry kids with access to daddy's gun cabinet. If the parents didn't own guns could sandy hook have happened? If there was a proper age limit on buying guns could columbine have happened. How can you have a country where you can't drink until your 21 but can buy a gun younger than that. Frankyscouse you defend it on cultural grounds, ok fair enough, there are many cultures with things that look wrong to a 21st century liberal british outlook and a few worse than america. But it isn't the wild west now anymore than its the time of the founding fathers. Cultures change as things that were once perceived as wrong become accepted. I think america is at a crossroads. Is personal freedoms more important than public safety. I think australia once faced the same issue. Sorry to waffle but i think this is an important issue and have strong feelings.

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I'd compare it to supposedly "vicious" dogs, I have a bull terrier and he would never hurt a fly but because some have killed people, everyone seems to be scared of him and I always say that there's no bad dogs just bad owners, it's the same with guns as the guns aren't bad it's the owners/users
LP

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Wouldnt it be easier to to maintain the current system of gun ownership but with one difference, that gun owners must undergo manditory psychological testing to make sure they are "mentally fit" to own a gun ?

i truly believe that these incidents have been engineered/ used by the powers that be in US to whip the people up into an anti gun frenzy. Basically the US government is creating the illusion that the dissarming of the nation is the people's idea when in fact it is theirs.

anyone who agrees have any thoughts on what exacly their motives could be ?

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I would MUCH rather be held up/mugged with a gun than a knife or bat, guys.

Criminals are not going to shoot you, a complete stranger, unless you start fighting back - a bat would be swung at you before you've even reacted, possibly even killing you with one club to the head.

A knife (believe me as someone who's been mugged at knife-point 3 times in his life) is a close-quarters weapon - it requires the criminal getting right up in your face, with the blade against your body.

I'd rather a guy standing 10yrds away with a gun that he'll only use if I try to fight back. A gun makes a noise, too - using it for a criminal is a last resort, unlike a knife or bat that will more than likely be used on you in some capacity, regardless of co-operation.

Just my opinion, but guns make criminals feel more powerful - merely the sight of one is enough to encourage co-operation. A knife or bat, not so much - criminal may feel the need to use it to prove he means business.

RED_SKY

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I believe that everyone should have the right to own a gun unless they are a criminal or are mentally unstable. If I own an ar15 I would not take it on the streets and walk around with it, clearly it would be kept at home locked up. The reason to own such guns is the same reason it was in 1776. You won't need the 2nd amendment until they try to take it away {Ed001's Note - except the reasons in 1776 were because it was a wild country with dangerous animals and natives. Those are not the same in 2013! If you feel the need to own an ar15, I fear for your mental stability, personally.}

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16 Jan 2013 21:49:23
You must fear for a lot of people in the states and Switzerland then. Oh an while I mention Switzerland, the country that has its citizens be trained in there malita, has the highest amount of guns owned in Europe and lets see, lowest crime rates. Then we look at the UK. Yes very low gun because there aren't any guns around but violent crime is the highest in the EU! It's not the guns it's the person holding it.

{Ed033's Note - Spot on

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14 Jan 2013 19:54:24
Did anyboy watch ancient aliens "aliens and the old west" what was name of the man who wrote the later and was never to be seen again. The said may have found a porthole?

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Tbh thought was that the worst episode of them all but i do love that programe

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I agree but i just want to know what the mans name is.

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Do you mean the Fur Trapper James Lumley? Could watch it again to find out

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No it was towards the end. He was friends with the man who found the cystal skull

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