Conspiracy Talk Archive October 14 2012

 

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14 Oct 2012 21:59:28
Ok, to take my mind off the welfare of my cat. I Watched the film "knowing" again last night (well the last 45 minutes or so and most importantly the ending), one of the only Nicholas Cage films maybe worth watching In my opinion. I don't want to spoil the end of the film too much but if the Adam & eve theory has any truth then it would be in my opinion only based on the fact that they "landed" or where "delivered" here rather than spawned from nothing or evolve from something very primitive. The ending is a bit like I think the human race got here....from somewhere else.
What's your opinion ed/anyone else?

Supasub {Ed001's Note - I have to admit, I have not seen the end, I tried watching it once and turned it off after about 25 minutes, so I can't comment on it.}

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Ok ed, I know it's been discussed probably plenty of times but how do you think we the human race got here or how do you think we have evolved from something if we hadnt originally arrived from some other planet?
I consider you a clever chap who's seen a lot of clips and discussions as well as some other people on this page.

Supasub {Ed001's Note - that is the big question, it is impossible to say with any certainty, but I will certainly give my opinion. For one, I don't believe the story of Adam and Eve is meant to be taken literally, it is clearly just a moral tale similar to Aesop's Fables. I certainly think the human race has been on the earth a lot longer than conventional history would have us believe. By the same token, I am not convinced that the theory of evolution explains our existence here. I do believe that recent research showing homo sapiens and neanderthal man interbreeding is to an extent an explanation of how we reached the stage we are at now. The question is whether we reached that initial stage with a bit of help, or whether we got there purely through nature. I think modern science, and its interference with the natural process, guides us towards the truth. My belief is that we were guided by more technologically advanced peoples, which is where the original stories of gods came from, into the form homo sapiens. It seems homo sapiens was an aggressive race and was probably the result of the more intelligent, technologically advanced race (which could well have been neanderthal who had a much larger brain capacity than our own) looking to create soldiers to fight its battles. Then some kind of holocaust (possibly nuclear or maybe just natural disasters such as the great flood that all ancient civilizations referred to) destroyed the technological base, leaving people to revert to hunting and gathering and early forms of farming. Obviously I could easily be wrong, there is no way of proving or disproving intelligent design or nature as humankind's creator, but it seems to fit the evidence much better than any other story.}

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A family of cats got abducted by aliens to start a new world ;)

sdk

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Thanks ed, where would you put the Sumerians, Mayans, Egyptian pyramids etc amongst it. I know you have opinions on it. I will then have a couple more glasses of vino tinto with my wife before bedtime as she's now giving me the look that tells me I've spent maybe too much time on this page this evening and not giving her enough of my attention!

Supasub {Ed001's Note - personally I would put the Sumerians as the first of the new civilizations following the downfall or whatever you want to call it. The Mayans were another one following it, one that tried to replicate forgotten technology, I think. The Egyptian pyramids and the Sphinx I think belonged to an earlier time, prior to that. Certainly there is evidence that they are much older than we are told. You will have to tell me your theories on it all tomorrow then!}

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Ok will try and get back to you tomorrow on my theory, but one last question. Do you think our origins have hard evidence or has been logged somehow and are known by Governments or other people in charge and kept from us?

Supasub {Ed001's Note - yes. There are always things being kept from us, from the amount of data the govt keeps on you from your activity on social networks, to what they know about pre-history. I unequivocally believe that there are factions out there working to hide the truth about our origins from us. There is a huge industry of people profiting from us not knowing, they would be silly not to be working to block the release of any info. For instance, if we knew the truth about Stonehenge, for instance, the likelihood is that the tourism industry built up around it would dry up over night. A huge part of the allure is the mystery.}

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It's one of nic cage's worst films..
it started off well but after 30 min it got real boring..

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We evolved over a long time,the biblical flood was the end of the ice age,we started to write,so history of some sort was able to be explained,jesus was a real person,who knows how you define god?its up to you!but if any of you think you have the inteligence to know it all your mad!my veiw on it is,put a tenner in a dogs mouth and tell him to go to the shop and get you a loaf and a packet of fags,he wont understand!just not got our intelect,how arrogant are we to think we are the top of the tree! have faith! bri67 {Ed001's Note - the only problem is that the Ice Age is a myth, as evidenced by Siberia having been a tropical paradise at the time of the 'Ice Age'. Personally I think Charles Hapgood's theory of the earth's outer layer slipping round and so melting the ice caps, makes more sense as an explanation for the great flood. That would also explain why the UK was under the ice, Antarctica was not and Siberia was tropical.}

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Sorry for the stupid question Ed.... very interesting discussion here, but what is the 'real' story with Stonhenge?? {Ed001's Note - I have no idea, it's a mystery, that's the point. I am pretty sure it will have an explanation that is no doubt extremely mundane, they always are simple and normally nothing like as interesting as people hope. What I was trying to say is that Stonehenge has a whole industry built around the mystery, if anyone did solve it, would you not want that kept quiet? The same with the Egyptian pyramids, that is why they fight tooth and nail to keep discoveries quiet until they have been checked out properly. No reason other than to make sure that nothing which would solve the mystery gets out into the public domain. It is the mystery that makes money.}

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Ah, I get you Ed... So if it turns out Joe Bloggs dropped them there in his mini-digger then its bye-bye to the millions of tourist's pounds! Fair enough

It would be nice to think that there is some deeply significant, creation-solving reason why these structures are present! But as you said, more likely is that there is a simple explanation

Macko

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Ed this is one we've discussed a few times.

I agree with Hapgood, Einstein signed off on it so if it was good enough for Albert. They have spent the last 50 odd years trying to discredit Hapgood as well so must have something on it.

The thing with Hapgood is that ice ages were localised events. Basically the poles don't remain in a constant place and the crust tens to slip around every few thousand years or so. So the poles tend be in different places, currently the North pole is in Greenland but its been in Canada leading to the American ice age which created the Great lakes, and its been more over our way leading to the last "ice age" when the North sea was created and we became an island.

Somesort of cataclysm happened the whole "Atlantis" legend which pops up in almost every culture on earth. And the survivors legged to high ground to restart civilsation: Sumer, the Mayans etc etc.

Just look at Mayan myths and the previous ages of man, or all the funky "flying carpets" and weapons with "the light of 10,000 suns" in the Veda's, or the pillar of fire at Sodom and Gomorrah. There is too much evidence in plain sight that is ignored, that things have been once.

The bible isn't meant to be taken literally, its allegorical in most parts, its an instruction book like all the other early "religious" texts. Most of it being translated wrong at least 3 times doesn't help things.

Mort {Ed001's Note - his theory is the only one that makes any sense, all the others I have seen still go with the Ice Age myth and fail to take into account Siberia's tropical status during an Ice Age. I may not be a qualified scientist, but my understanding is that if Siberia was where it is now, the UK was where it is now, then Siberia would be colder. So I don't understand why anyone would believe in the Ice Age, it just makes no sense at all.}

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Thats the thing, during these ice ages it was further south, now its shifted northwards. The ice ages happened, just that the crust was in a different place and the poles were elsewhere compared to now.

They do it in the film 2012. Not a great film, but worth a watch as its about the first time i've seen Hapgood in the mainstream.

Although for anyone interested check out Rand flem-Ath, a Canadian chap who wioth his wife have done a lot of work on this and how it ties into the Atlantis myth, some of the stuff will blow your mind. Its best getting the book, but maybe start with the website, if its still up.

Mort {Ed001's Note - I have read a bit of his stuff. I am sorry but I am not convinced an Ice Age happened, it was just that we are looking at what was the poles and saying it must have been an Ice Age because it was under ice. When in fact it was just in a different place, where the ice is normally.}

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Internet connection tripped out last night, weird.

I was going to say that what i meant was that as the poles moved about every 50000 years or whatever it is then different areas got the cold weather associated with being at the pole, so in that case its localised bad weather conditons that are in effect an ice age, but its a misleading term as its only affecting the area at the pole which is natural not freak weather conditions.

Ice age is a bad term as it suggest freak weather patterns away from the poles when in fact the poles shifted but they don't want to admit that.

I hope that makes sense.

Mort {Ed001's Note - yes, that makes a lot of sense.}

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Always get there in the end Ed. Its getting the brain around the idea. {Ed001's Note - I struggle to explain things myself, I find it really difficult.}

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It takes a lot of factors for an ice age to begin. The next is due in around 60 thousand years. With siberia they can tell by taking soil samples from the perma frost which go back thousands of years. So guys before you start talking BS learn the facts !! {Ed001's Note - I am learning the facts, the facts are that Siberia was covered in tropical plants during the so-called Ice Age, that is fact. Tropical plants that would not have survived, yet they were there and flourishing. You are the one talking BS.}

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14 Oct 2012 20:41:30
Completely different topic, but got woken up last night including my wife to the sound of an animal screaming in our back garden which quickly got quieter and distant. Didn't really think much of it but haven't seen one of our cats today who is about 18 months old and is always close by. He's a bi at too. Been reading up today and does anyone know if a fox would take a cat, I've heard they have been known to attack at the throat and drag them off, especially in urban areas and with the use of wheelie bins its happening more often because of lack of rubbish to scavenge. Getting a bit worried, if that is what's happened I say bring back fox hunting!

Supasub {Ed001's Note - whereas I would say, thank you to the fox for making sure there is one less cat digging up my garden and crapping all over it!}

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That's harsh ed. try telling that to my 6 & 8 year old. I know it's not a conspiracy but from I can tell its been reported of cats being dragged off but so called professionals seem to think its very improbable.

Supasub {Ed001's Note - sorry, but a cat is a killer and is responsible for a lot of damage done to wildlife populations. If you want a cat, it should not be out at night wandering the streets like a wild animal, in my view.}

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In my first post missed a letter out. I meant he's a Big cat.
Still can't believe you said that ed. They've mauled or even killed babies in London didn't they? Is that one less mouth to feed?

Supasub {Ed001's Note - what has that got to do with your cat?}

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Nothing really, just a little worried. I was hoping you'd come out with some fascinating fact about fox's, cats or something which would keep my hopes up. Apology accepted anyway.

Supasub {Ed001's Note - oh ok, no, it would be unusual behaviour for a fox though, they are scavengers in the main. Cats are very capable of fighting them off.}

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Supasub in my area we had one a few months back, his tally was 1 rabbit, half a dozen chickens someone kept in the yard and possibly 1 cat. Then he moved off somewhere else.

A fox would take a cat if there was nothing else on, and the cat was the right size.

I live in a rural area, home to a hunt and foxes are vicious killers, yet these persons down in London think poor fluffy mr fox and interfered in something they didn't understand. Now the fox population is booming and getting bold.

To clarify i didn't agree with hunting with dogs as that is cruel. But a modified hunt, to keep down fox numbers could have been done.

But then thats inner city based Labour policiticans who seem to think that all the countryside is Tory so screw them. Not the peoples jobs that were affected, as hunting provided jobs to a lot of other businesses which ina rural economy need all the income they can get. {Ed001's Note - actually a lot of people against hunting where against it because they were farmers etc in the area and their lands were suffering damage at the hands of the hunts. That was just as much of an issue as anything, most people would agree that a fox needs its numbers kept down, just like any native animal with a lack of native predators will.}

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Anyway ed how's about you think it's highly likely or very unlikely? That a fox will take a very good sized cat.

Supasub {Ed001's Note - it's possible, I would have to say that theft or thugs would be more likely though. People are the worst enemy for pets.}

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Ed001,
Harsh mate, harsh.
As a cat owner, your comments made me cringe; but i do concede that cats can be vicious hunters.
As for your garden being dug up, might I suggest spraying something citrusy around, as cats hate this.

Redjinal {Ed001's Note - as a father, having cat muck all over my garden makes me more than cringe. Sorry, but like I said earlier, pets shouldn't be roaming the streets and I shouldn't have to treat my garden because you can't keep it away from my garden.}

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Depends on the farmer ed. Talk to a chicken farmer thats lost chickens to a fox and their all for it.

I get your point but thats an issue that could have been thrashed out on a local basis. There was just no need for government to get involved. {Ed001's Note - I know mate, I was just pointing out that it wasn't all inner city people that wanted an end to hunting with hounds. A friend of mine was put in hospital by his local hunt after he asked them not to trespass on his land. The previous hunt had caused thousands of pounds worth of damage to his land, so he understandably tried to refuse access. When it went to court, the judge residing on the case also happened to be a member of the hunt! I am sure there are many similar cases that happened up and down the country. So not everyone against it were city folk, I am sure most chicken farmers just want an effective control for fox populations, which a hunt is not.}

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Yeah fair enough, you can only go on local issues.

I know a lot of people invloved in hunts can be a bunch of see you next tuesdays, just bugs me when you see all these city types talking on about stuff they don't understand.

They do tend to have their friend in influence, most of them are masons as well so..... {Ed001's Note - it's just a shame it is seen in black and white terms of countryside vs city, foxes are a pest in both areas. If only people would work together to sort out a compromise, it would have been better.}

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If he doesn't turn up tomorrow I will assume the worst, just seems a coincidence as he's nearly always ou front or back and middle of last night the sound I heard from this animal was horrible, it didn't sound like a cat, but it moved further away and got quieter. I fear it was my cat though taken by the throat I presume by a fox or even a badger.

Supasub

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Hope its alright supasub,i know how it effects the kids.
frankyscouse

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Supasub i know how you feel.. I live in an estate near enough the country side and about 2 months my sisters cat got attacked.. It sounded different from a normal cat fighting with another cat so i went out and there was a fox attacking the cat.. So I had to kick and drag the fox off her and luckily saved the cat.

Irish Red Jr

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A fox is more than capable of killing a cat, where i live there has been plenty of dead cats due to fox's, even small dogs like Yorkshire terriers get taken.

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Fox? Try telling that to someone from India and you will hear stories how the cows and buffaloes were dragged out of the shed s and humans being attacked in streets by none other than leopards ! NOt just in villages but even in Bombay!

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Thanks for all your comments, sorry ed for using your page almost for like a missing pets page, our cat has turned up this morning looking a little tired and matted with a bloodied and slightly cut face, something has definately gone on as its not happened before. I will keep him in with the other for a few nights, if any crap appears in your garden ed it won't be our cats.

Supasub {Ed001's Note - it was most likely fighting with other cats mate, I do hope it gets better, for all they annoy me, I don't actually wish harm on them. Even if it may have seemed like I do!}

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Wild animals shouldnt be hunted, at the end of the day chickens, rabbits should have more secure cages. we need to cut down foreigners and scroungers, rapists and murderers instead of animals living wildlife. i live in somerset.

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You don't live anywhere near where the welsh "panther" was spotted do you?
LP

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14 Oct 2012 18:01:13
dont know if tis has been mentioned before, but technology is moving at speed these days as we all know so why hasnt the small things called batteries evolved all that much. you would have thought they would have found a much easier nd longer energy source than the stuff they put in those tings
huddz red

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They prob have moved on but stuff like batteries are in a constant demand and that means constant money , you see my drift?.
frankyscouse

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Same theory as petrol, white goods, cars, car parts and so on. All repeat purchases and designed to last......only so long. I visited a factory years ago that made clutches for cars in a previous job. The company could of made a clutch that lasted the life of the car without replacing and had been made but was ditched. Instead they design one that spins so many 100 thousand revolutions on a machine and breaks at the correct moment but not beyond that. I learnt.a little bit about life that day as an 18 year old. Bit like finding out Santa wasn't real in a daft way. I was disappointed to say the least.


Supasub

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Supasub ya wrong mate. Santa is real

Aaron

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Sorry but you are wrong, I work in the electric bike industry, people are constantly looking for long term batteries started with lead acid (car style batteries) then to Nickel metal hydrate to lithium ion or lithium polymer now to lifepo4 good for around 2000 full recharges, a lot depends on how you care for the battery. Don't leave in the cold recharge as much as possible etc etc etc

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14 Oct 2012 11:48:37
Ed, didn't you say a while ago you believed an afterlife is possible because of a sudden weight loss people have when they die?

I agree with Supasub's opinions and if there is a creater, we humans wouldn't have worked him/her/it out at all, which is why I don't follow a religion. However, I think some form of conscious creater of the universe is no more unplausible than emerging from nothing.

Adam {Ed001's Note - until it is proven otherwise, I will always believe something is possible.}

Its athread from further down so thought id re-post as it is interesting. Regarding the body being lighter after death, isn't it something like 21 grammes to do with the film 21 grammes?
Could be the human spirit or something similar?

Supasub {Ed001's Note - that is why they called the film that and all sorts of people have looked for reasons to explain it, but most theories are more of a fudge than an explanation.}

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Mmmmmmmmmmmmm fudge! sorry got all homer simpson then, what do you personally belive ed?
huddz red {Ed001's Note - I honestly don't know mate, it is a mystery to me, none of the possibilities stand out as the likeliest.}

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Maybe reincarnation is true?

Or maybe we just join with the Force? Perhaps thats what ghosts are? People coming back as a projection of their living themselves? {Ed001's Note - I always thought of ghosts as a memory, not our memories but still a memory, as other things must have the capability to remember, even if not the same way we do. After all, it takes a form of memory to keep in a specific state, so why could events not be remembered? I can't think how to explain what I mean, so I hope that makes sense.}

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Kind of its the memory of the departed.

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Just read this, thanks for the reply ed.

Adam {Ed001's Note - you're welcome mate, it is what I am here for, I think!}

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14 Oct 2012 11:02:54
Greetings all,

I've read the boxing match between Deano and Ed001 and found it epically enlightening but more so hugely entertaining.
Can I throw the theory into the ring which wasn't mentioned, that being that the human race is only 250 000 years old? Think it was Pye amongst others who theorises this(may be wrong).
I can say and think we all agree on the fact that we are here by intelligent design. What intelligence designed us? Was it God, evolution or some other intervention?
I do not know, but I believe we were spliced with the DNA of our creators with that of the then indigenous beings on this planet. Coupled with that we were programmed to worship our creators and call them gods.
This in my opinion is where all the differing religions come into play.
I am not knocking religion in no way, shape or form as my mum(RIP) was one of the most devout Christians you will ever see. As a child, I was dragged to pentecostal church(usually kicking and screaming) on Sunday morning to sing happy clappy songs, whilst all my mates played out. This is probably one of the reasons why I don't go now.
What I will say tho is my mum was always tolerant of other religions and even the none believers. I think if all people into religion had that view, the world would be a better place.
Forgot the original point I was going to make now. Doh!

NoneTheWiser

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