Conspiracy Talk Archive February 21 2013

 

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21 Feb 2013 17:17:34
Is this the page where we can discuss why cannabis is STILL illegal in most countries around the world?

By now you would have thought these big pharmaceutical companies would have wised up and seen the medicinal purposes of the plant.

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There is no medicinal properties in cannabis it leads to psychosis, you wanna see some of the cases we have to deal with in community mental health, because all they do all day is sit on their ps3 or x box & smoke weed all day, they get money for doing nothing. They get everything for nothing, as long as they have got that bit of paper with a psychiatric report they don't have to worry. {Ed002's Note - There is sufficient empirical evidence to substantiate that cannabis can have a positive influence on sufferers of several medical conditions. There is also considerable evidence that reasonable social use does little or no permanent harm. Take alcohol as a comparison - there is nothing whatsoever wrong with reasonable and sensible use whereas period binge drinking or sustained abuse will invariably lead to problems. Taking extreme cases provides no foundation for putting together a sensible argument.}

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No medical properties what a joke

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Someone once told me it was due to hemp the reason behind them banning it don't know if it's true but apparently hemp is the most resourceful substance as fuel clothes and other materials can be made from it!

RR!

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Why bring alcohol in to the discussion, total different social problem, MS suffers use cannabis but eventually it has no benefits {Ed002's Note - It was a comparison. You have just brought MS suffferers in to the discussion for no reason.}

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Weed, tobacco and alcohol all do the same if taken in large amounts but I think there must be something more to marijuana as I can't understand why it would be illegal unless it is good for people. It could be that the big companies know something about it that we don't.
LP

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I smoked cannabis from the age of 12/13. About the time I was 20 I was smoking it every night right up to the age of 35, it took me three weeks of extreme night sweats and headaches to get off It and I have to say it's the best thing I could have done, my friends who still smoke it and have done for as long as I had are not faring to well these days to say the least, they can't sleep, they're on anti deppresents and almost all of them have no jobs to speak of. Those that do live the life of hermits and I honestly feel that they are missing out on life, cannabis never made me want to try coke or heroin but it most definitely made me waste the best part of my life. It may or may not have medicinal properties, but to any one thinking of trying it for this reason I'd honestly say try medicine first.

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Well I can speak for me mum who has for the last 5 months has been taking cannabis she has never took a drug in her life and was reluctant to try it but the pain of her rheumatoid arthritis in her body made her try it as conventional drugs are not really helping plus they are destroying her internal organs , you should no if you work in mental health the drugs that are given to patients are just if not worse than cannabis, btw my mum smokes half a joint before she goes to bed and help her sleep.

frankypi--edofscouser

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I smoked weed for ages it was a social thing instead of going out and getting drunk I would spend 1/10 of the price and have just as good a night I have a great job a family and a very humble attitude its not the drug that causes the problems its the person and that person then blames the drug, I've never had any bad effects its all phycological

Jedimindtricks

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So your mum smokes weed because the other medicines are destroying her other internal organs, sorry frankyscouse but what is the smoking part not destroying her lungs

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Sorry Jedi lad drugs are the problem, society is dependant on them

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I agree jedi its the person, I have a great mate but as soon as he's had a few drinks he's a pain in the a---s were I can drink as much as him and be mellow.

frankyscouse

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I'm 41, I've smoked weed for over twenty years pretty much daily (well, nightly after work to be exact). I hold down a high powered job and enjoy the relaxing feeling it gives.
I've seen many results of people habitually smoking it: some do indeed move onto harder stuff. others end up doing it day and night and not doing much else, so I consider myself in the minority. I think you have to be of a certain disposition to do it. I have quite a high stress job and motivational mindset, and Cannabis helps me mellow out on a night and sleep very soundly. I can and often do go without for periods of time. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I cannot understand why it's illegal when there's NO doubt it's less harmful than tobacco and alcohol (and I was raised by Publican parents, so know 1st hand how damaging drinking is). If it was legalised the quality would be regulated and these super strains (which I believe are damaging) could be quashed. Plus there would be the benefit of tax income. I dream of the day when it's sold in jars like coffee at supermarkets. It's only a matter of time. We always follow U.S. trends, where many states now have "pot clinics" (where you can get a prescription for all manner of weed types for nominal "ailments" like not being able to sleep or feeling a bit stressed.

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To the unnamed poster if it was a choice of prescribed medication to weed to help with pain , I would choose pot all day long (btw I don't smoke).

frankyscouser

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It is quite ridiculous that there isn't some sort of legalisation! Even if the gov tax the hell out of it, most of us would abide as to not break the law whilst having our smoke! Like ed mentioned, like alcohol, if you abuse it then it can be a very dangerous lonely addiction. But we don't seem to mind alcoholics, most of them get shunned by society and left to their own, you see, as long as its legal, a very small number of us will abuse it and it will ruin lives and people turn a blind eye because its a legal substance that's got caused the problem (not mentioning the victims own personal issues)
Now just for talking sake (seen as I haven't posted in a while). If you could split a city centre into two halves, have one side pubs and clubs and the other side hemp cafès, you not what side would have the highest percentage of trouble and police call outs! I'm not for one moment suggesting everyone that smokes weed is less likely to act in a criminal manner whilst under the influence of their chosen substance. Merely suggesting that, without mentioning how laid back you are when stoned, most people who would have to travel to their city centre to smoke weed would be doing so solely for that purpose!

Peace

Jay
Glasgow

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Finally a topic on here I can comment on. Jedi and RR have already made the two most meaningful points. Being it's the person not the drug and hemp is the reason weed is illegal.

I'm a massive advocate for weed. I've smoked it on and off since I was about 13, so over a decade. I've had/got mates that smoke it daily. Some of whom are extremely successful in fields of medicine, big business, trades, retail etc. others that are lazy pigs and everything in between. It is most certainly down to the person rather than the drug. Prolonged marijuana use CAN cause schizophrenia, although studies have shown that this is generally the case in people that are predispositioned to mental issues (genetically). THC (the part of marijuana that induces the 'high') has been proven to have many medicinal purposes such as dealing with migranes, muscle pain, sleeping problems. It also helps cancer patients going through kemotheropy built an appetite.

The initial study that the US did, which they based their findings that it caused mental problems was an absolute joke. They got a bunch of chimps and put them in an enclosure. They then strapped a mask on each gimp (like a gas mask). They then proceeded to pump the equivalent of 1,000 or 10,000 (can't remember) joints into the chimps every few hours. Now I'm sure any weed smoker would agree, that couldn't be good for your health.

The second point about hemp is another important one. Hemp is the most useful plant on the planet. Food, textiles, paper, fabric and more recently it has been discovered that you can use it to make alternatives to gas, plastic and other petroleum products. The stuff is strong too. You can make rope and other things out of it and it will hold strong, and I mean real strong.

The US realised that if Marijuana was made legal, then anyone could produce hemp. If that happened then many of their multi corps would be put out of business as their would be less reliance of wool, cotton, oil etc.

Legalising marijuana and in doing so hemp, would reduce our carbon foot print. It would reduce reliance on man made textiles and materials and it would help civilization continue. But as we all know that means the rich won't be getting richer and so won't bloody do it.

Melbourne CFC

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That's exactly what I was told Melbourne CFC! I smoked cannabis for 16 years every night! I work full time and it never effected my job! I've recently stopped it and yes it is hard to stop but it's the same with anything if you love chocolate and been eating it everyday then stop you'll crave for it! Another point that no one has raised is the famous people that have smoked cannabis through out history like Sir Richard Branson, Barack Obama, Michael Bloomberg, Michael Phelps yes the Olympic Swimmer and some believe Albert Einstein smoked cannabis! There are thousands more celebs that smoke cannabis and I don't see them checking into the Betty Ford clinic for their addiction.

RR!

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I beileve all the problems are down to the persons mindset being too high to move and the ones that laze about not achieveing anything is to do with them not the drug I use to smoke in the morning then go for 4 hours of cagefighting, success is truely phycological

Jedimindtricks

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Weed is previlant in the fighting seen Jedi. I have a mate wading over to Brazil for two weeks soon for a BJJ course. He had a horrific burns injury about a year ago and had 3rd degree burns to his entire body. They didn't think he would make it, but due to his fitness he did. He smoked daily before the accident and still does now. He reckons it really helped with the pain when he was initially released from hospital because sleep was impossible without it due to his skin rubbing against the sheets. Anyway he told me the other day that his BJJ instructor, who is also heading over to Brazil, said that all the MMA fighter smoke over there because it helps them relax and stay calm while they roll on the mats. It is certainly down to the person if they are lazy in nature or not. And I find the only people that have a go at smokers are people that work with the worst cases (social workers, mental illness doctors ect) and people that are ill-informed.

Exactly RR, there everywhere. Bill Maher (spelling) has a political talk show (I think) in the US is a massive advocat for legalisation. As is Joe Rogan (UFC commentator and old Fear Facor host). These are people who work long hours in front of cameras, that generally have to talk sense. They do it on chuff and have done for years.

The debate in my eyes is ridiculous. So many more pros then cons. Look at Frankies mum. Never done drugs before, so obviously isn't an addict or I'm guessing was a big advocat, but then tries it and sees how beneficial it can be fore pain relief.

Melbourne CFC

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Great points Melbourne RR jedi in fact everyone.

frankyscouse

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22 Feb 2013 11:01:03
if corporations could make money off it wouldn't they push for it? Get in there first before everyone else can and monopolise it?

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Corporations are not going to back weed as pain relief because they would lose more money on the pills they have been selling to governments for over a hundred years.

frankyscouse

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Exactly Frankie. They already make money off marijuana not being legal, by selling other forms on medication.

If weed was legal people could grow their own plants and create their own hemp. Many people (you'd refer to them as hippies) already make their own clothes from hemp. These clothes are made to last forever. Literally forever. How can corps make a stream of money of a product that doesn't need replacing. How can the US be a 'superpower' as they were, if gas in its rawest form is available to everybody? How can they create such huge budgets for fighting crime if the crime rate is low (as is the case in Amsterdam)? Stats say that the crime rate only decreased by a significant amount once weed was legalised. Less drug crimes, less violent crime etc.

Melbourne CFC

The corps make much more money by weed being illegal then they would if it was illegal. {Ed001's Note - that's not quite true, violent crime decreasing did not happen as a result of cannabis alone. Prostitution had a huge effect on the violent crime figures. In fact they have just the same problems with hard drugs everywhere else has. It is a misnomer to suggest that cannabis legality or otherwise has any real effect on crime figures, there is no real evidence to support that anywhere. In fact, in trials in England, it resulted in a rise in violent crimes when the police stopped cracking down on it. Sorry but the pro-cannabis lobby are as guilty as the anti in making false and extravagant claims for it, as you are showing Melbourne. It is no wonder drug, it can be a very good painkiller and hemp is a very good material, but certainly not 'everlasting'. It is also perfectly possible to buy hemp clothing in the shops, there is no ban on the sale of hemp, it is freely available for fish bait.}

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If it was legalised ed do you think society would change for the better or for the worse? I'm not questioning your beliefs ed just genuinely interested in what you have to say as you seem like a very knowledgable guy

RR! {Ed002's Note - "Knowledgable? I guess you mean another Ed. There are two problems with decriminalizing cannabis that I can see. (1) The strains being developed today are far "stronger" than they were of old, so it is no longer a simple social pleasure to get high with a few friends in many cases. These stronger strains are resulting in increases in crime and contributing to the continued decay of society. (2) Society itself has changed considerably over the past 35 years. Peace, love & eternal cosmic wisdom has been replaced by something altogether rather nasty that wallows in self-pity and owns a Playstation.

For me perhaps we could find a solution that sees broader decriminalization of the run good old Maui Wowie we all used to smoke when listening to Country Joe and The Fish whilst leaving distribution of the much stronger Ninja Stormtrooper or whatever varieties subject to prosecution.}

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Sorry ed001 I was probably talking too broadly. Cannabis was/is not the only reason violent crime decreased, but it was certainly a factor. And it certainly decreased in the surrounding areas of Amsterdam City, just not in the red light district. The fact that when the police in England stopped cracking down on weed, it increases is not a very good indication of the fact that legalising wouldn't help reduce these things, as the crimes committed were by criminals. By decriminalising it, a lot of the people in the trade have to look for other avenues to make money. Some will go into selling crack etc, but due to the harsher crimes for those drugs, a lot won't follow the path and wi turn to legal avenues for making money.

Hemp certainly has a MUCH longer self life than other materials such as wool, cotton etc.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that pro marijuana lobiest spin as much crap as none pro, however the difference is the number of each group. Due to its illegal stature the majority of the public will jump straight on the bandwagon of its bad for you blah blah blah as some on here have done, and will not chance their stance. The theory that Marijuana is bad for your lungs or as bad as tobacco is the perfect example. It is not true. There are many methods of smoking weed such as a vaporiser, tobaccoless joints that remove such issues.

The weed of today certainly has a higher THC level then it use to and contains far more chemicals. This is somewhat down to its illegal status. By spraying it with fly spray (like some animals do) it increases the high and so drums up repeat business for dealers, while they can create smaller quantities and sell them as if they are the full amount.

I don't think legalising it so that everyone can have complete access is the answer myself, but regulating it is a completely sensible thing to do, in my honest opinion.

Melbourne CFC {Ed001's Note - I wasn't disagreeing with you, as such, I was pointing out that it actually makes little difference to crimes committed. Which is why, for me, I don't think it matters at all, whether legal or otherwise. Crimes will be committed either way, the only real issue is whether kids looking to rebel will end up having to search out something more dangerous to use for their acts of rebellion. That is the reason I would, if it went to a vote, vote to keep it illegal. Just to keep the rebellious kids from turning to harder drugs in order to seek illicit pleasures. Other than that, I don't see it as an issue one way or the other, I don't use it, I prefer to keep a clear head, but I have no problem with its usage. I certainly think it should be available for medicinal reasons, just like morphine is.}

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Love your response ed and even though I have now quit would love to give the ninja stormtrooper ago! But I totally agree that society has changed and so has the power of the smoke increased! But if cannabis would have been made legal in the 60's there would be no need for back street practicing Pharmacys to keep increasing the strength of the strains! Sorry to bring alcohol into it again but we can all make home brew larger a lot stronger than we can buy in the shops but we don't because it's easier to go and buy 4 cans from the offie.

RR

{Ed002's Note - A lot of these strong lagers (Bonehead's Revenge, Satan's Grip etc.) act in the same way as the stronger strains of ganja. They help shift the behooded ones to an alternate dimension akin to where they are when playing “Leisure Suit Larry” or whatever it is the kids play now. There is a slight saving grace that they might be so wasted that they can't commit any crimes. The longer term benefit is, hopefully, that they will not be able to reproduce thereby providing a solution to at least some of the problems society faces. But if we could go back to that more mellow high from back in the day, that would suit me just fine.
I had to ask my PA what "offie" is. She explained but seems unconvinced you have spelt it correctly.}

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I had to look offie up on google, and they seemed to put your point in a very much dumbed down laymans terms:

Look at the time! It's wifebeater o'clock. Should I go and drink sociably and responsibly with mature friends in the pub and then return home in a quiet, orderly fashion without vandalising or vomiting; or shall I go down the offie and buy some dangerous-looking lager, go home and get personed - all sorry and lonesome; vandalise my own home and vomit in every room?

Found it quite amusing, while sadly very true.

Melbourne CFC

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Haha sorry ed should have said off license :) well at least your P. A has earned their wages today and thanks very much for your response ed much appreciated!

RR! {Ed002's Note - You have a great day. And always best to use English with me rather than any of this Ganster Rap "offie" or whatever.}

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Eddo2 on this site? can't be?you don't come across as a conspiracy type of person edd.

frankyscouse {Ed002's Note - I see myself as the voice of reason explaining that there are no conspiracies, only paranoia.}

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You have a great day to ed I'll try to use English in future! Peace out homie! ;)

RR!

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Offy gangsta rap? lol its more like scouse slang edd.

frankyscouse

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There are no conspiracies, only paranoia.? hmm so Oswald shot jfk, erm we are the only intelligent life form in the universe?twin towers came down because of a plane?there are no fema camps in the USA? you don't seem dumbed down edd so you must be part of the elite or related to piers morgan.

frankyscouse {Ed002's Note - (a) Oswald is not a conspiracy, it is a binary switch in that he either did or didn't shoot JFK. (b) IWhen you say "we" ...... (c) There will always be stuff that the general public should not be informed of. (d) You need to get out more. (e) According to my frequent flyer mile progams I am well beyond Elite. With one airline I carry a Global Services card - none of this Silver or Gold card nonsense. Have you ever wondered just how people become Global Services members? And quite what benefits they get? (f) Morgan has always worked in the fringe press rather than the press of true journalism.}

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To the 2nd poster who mentioned weed smokers sit on there xbox/ps3's all day living off hand outs. You cheeky narrow minded degenerate! I've smoked for over 15 years, go to work every day of the week and expect no hand outs! I pay for the roof over my head, like my taxes pay for many others roofs above their heads! I earn my £ fair and square by working hard and if I want to spend my money on weed then so be it, we don't all sit on our arses all day living off the state so be careful where you throw your mud!

bRy

{Ed033's Note - Hear, hear.

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Well said bRy classification is horrible the majority are suffering from the minority's image and it isn't lile that one bit!

Jedimindtricks

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To all the peeps out there that are pro cannabis, your going for your eventual triple heart by-pass, hypothetically speaking of course and the nurse comes up to you and says " Its your lucky day sir/madam you have the choice of either a surgeon who smokes weed and one who does not".

Unnamed poster

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Hey edd why has my post to edd02 been took off? i was not offensive?

frankyscouse

{Ed033's Note - Waiting to see if Ed002 wants to reply to it

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To the unnamed poster if a silly question so I will give you a silly reply. if its a nhs surgeon who have to work 80 hours a week and take amphetamines to keep awake I will take the surgeon who smokes pot.

frankyscouse

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Melbourne CFC that made me laugh! And now I feel completely honoured that someone higher than an elite i.e Ed002 answered one of my questions! Get me Frankie all my mates will be as they sayin Essex Well Jel! Haha

RR!

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What about the 40hr a week fireman who's coming to rescue you from your burning bedsit. Surely he should be allowed a fly puff!

Unnamed Poster

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Mate if I ever said well gel I would take pot.

frankyscouser

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Unnamed poster you win, now your posts have made me order some weed for the 1st time in 26 years, I hope you feel proud of yourself?.

frankyscouse

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Unnamed poster, could you please tell me why you wouldn't want these people helping you? Explain to me how exactly the weed would stop, or even hinder a person doing their job. How would it change their mental state from doing it sober? Would they be hearing voices etc after smoking a joint? Would a surgeon get the shakes? Would a lawyer forgot precedents or the prosecutor the brief of evidence? Would a McDonalds worker not put ketchup on my Quarter Pounder?

All honest questions because I don't follow your point. Is somehow being stoned meant to change these people's abilities? Their concentration levels? Would they just be hungry all the time?

Melbourne CFC

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26 years? Its been to long brother

Jedimindtricks

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Ed002,
(a) you are correct but the conspiracy is it was he's own peers who knew about it.
(b)you never answered my question.
(c)true but that's if you trust your own government.
(d) I am out plenty of times thank you very much.
(e)you are to modest.
(f) so you are related then.?

frankyscouse {Ed002's Note - (a) There you go, you are trusting the Sun or whatever over your intuition. (b) You are to the best of my memory a Liverpool football supporter - that will constrain rationality as you well know. (c) You maybe don't know enough about me or my background, but broadly a decent point. (e) Maybe the Global Services people will take over - you should be scared - very scared. (f) Back in the day we all had a "back stairs sprog" we needed to deny - Pete is one of those.}

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Yeah mate I don't smoke to be honest. I had a go at pot and felt sick and I could get stoned off a normal cigarette but its not my bag.

frankyscouse

{Ed033's Note - You can log in or register on this site now

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And also what in gods name is a 'fly puff'?

Melbourne CFC

{Ed033's Note - I'd say it is a quick inhale of smoke

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Reply to edd02.
(a)will never trust the s-n and I do trust my intuition.
(b)i will use a bill shankly quote to reply " "We're professionals at Liverpool, we believe in simplicity. I wouldn't go on television or use words in newspapers that only a few people understand. Some people use words knowing full well that maybe only 10% of the viewers or readers know what they mean. We don't. We speak the language of the people, the language that everybody understands. Instead of me saying that somebody was avaricious, I would say they were bloody greedy".
(c) I don't know about your background.
(e) since you left out d I think everyone should be scared not just a blue collar worker like myself.
(f) a straight answer will do instead of a cryptic one.

btw cheers for the replies.

frankyscouse

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Ahhh ok thanks Ed033. I believe they call that turkey dashing in Oz. A much more exciting name if you ask me.

Melbourne CFC

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Frankyscouse I never made these points to make you smoke the green, I was merely tryin to say that if it's all right to smoke cannabis then it should be ok for anyone to smoke it and if that's the case then where do you draw the line. Doctors, firemen should not smoke it because your life may be on the line and if that's the case then you must see that in some situations smoking should not be allowed.
Melbourne CFC, It may not at the time hinder their reactions but if you die or are misrepresented in court then blood tests may be required and the doctor/ lawyer/ fireman will be held responsible.
The question you should be asking yourself is why do the government let you smoke cannabis and not give you 10 years just for being caught with it.
I personally think it's because the government are far more happy with you sitting in your house smoking and not asking questions and not getting into trouble or asking why they are allowed to tax us film us or make us reform to the thousand laws that have been introduced in the last ten years.
A mind free of restraints is a mind that questions.

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And one more thing, Turkey dashing dies not sound better it sounds like bestiality. Lol

Unamed Poster

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I understand what you're saying mate but certainly don't agree that a stoned mind is a restrained mind. As someone said earlier Albert Einstein certainly didn't have a restrained mind. I think I'm probably not in the best position to comment on the weed and hash problems of England. In Australia 'stoners' certainly don't kick doors in and rob you with claw hammers. that certainly sounds like a hybrid strain of weed. Maybe Ed002 has a point that some strains should be regulated and others harshly punished.

I just think you are tarnishing all weed smokers with the same brush, which to me, is wrong. I don't know a single aggressive smoker.

Melbourne CFC

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Albert Einstein smoking cannabis is a delightful concept, but it's simply not true. You cannot seriously believe that the greatest mind of modern history smoked a fat one then conjured up the theory of relativity. It was the result of research, study and an endless source of hard work.
As for the kidz coming through your door with claw hammers, ye that might be way off in the future but it is in the future. The green will get stronger and the kidz will get bolder.

Unnamed Poster

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I don't think you can claim that Noname. There is certainly theories that Einstein did smoke weed. Even talk that one of his tobacco pipes was tested and found to have cannabis residue in it. Many great minds have/do smoke weed ie. Steve Jobs, Pullizer Prize winner Carl Sagan, designer of the atomic bomb Richard Feynman etc. I think it's naive to say that he couldn't have achieved what he did if he did smoke weed. Especially due to the fact it was much weaker back then.

Melbourne CFC

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The point about fireman/doctors smoking weed could have consequences if they had a drug test is true but that shows how hypercritical the laws are, I have a friend who is now high up in a mental health hospital for at least ten years he was doing 60 to 85 hours a week on average and threw-ought that time he was popping pills to stay awake and he drinks in the pub when he can because of work commitments and if you drug tested him for drugs he would come up fine, like I mentioned before most of the nhs doctors had a test for amphetamines then there would be a hell of a lot drs and nurses worried.

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21 Feb 2013 13:16:01
Thought i'd put up a few things.

Regards our old friends the Bushes a few facts:

George H W Bush, 41st President:

George Sr cannot recall his whereabouts on November 22nd 1963. This surely has to be suspicious, you ask anyone of a certain age what they were doing that day and they can pretty much give you a blow by blow account. Yet he doesn't know where he was? Strange especially given as he lived and worked in Texas.

Incidentally there has emerged photo's of a chap who looks a little like Bush in Dallas hours after the shooting. Its not good quality and it might not even be him, but if it is what was he doing in Dallas and why can't he remember it?

tomflocco.com/Docs/63/BushJfkBookDepo.htm

Its not brilliant quality, it might not be him, but there are similiarities.

Bush's oil company Zapata has links to the CIA, and may have been used as a cover company for the Bay of PIgs. The Zapata oil platform is close to Cuba. 2 of the boats used at Bay of Pigs were the Zapata and the Barbara. Speculation persists that Bush was involved with the CIA back in the early 1960's.

All 3 Bush's have been in the Skull & Bones society.

Prescott Bush along with fellow "Bonesmen" Averell & Roland Harriman made a fortune in in financing Mr Adolf Hitler. Prescott was stripped of his holdings in the Union Banking Corporation in 1942 under the "Trading with the Enemy Act". Not a good sign.

Bush and Harriman would eventually hire attorney John Foster Dulles to help cover up any improprieties that might arise under investigative scrutiny.

John Foster Dulles was the brother of Allen Dulles, the later CIA director, who was the architect - together with Vice President Richard Nixon and George Bush - of the Bay of Pigs invasion to overthrow Fidel Castro's Cuba. Allen Dulles was fired by President Kennedy because of the fiasco of the Bay of Pigs. Yet Allen Dulles was appointed by Lyndon Johnson to serve on the Warren Commission to "investigate" JFK's death.

Dulles was known to resent the Kennedy's yet he's appointed to serve on the commission that investigates the assassination? And his family has links to the Bush's.

Prescott and the Harrimans were involved with CBS, sitting on the board. So the Bush's also have ties to a major US media outlet. Incidentally the CBS logo is an eye, a well known symbol of the Illuminati.

Curiously the Harrimans were big in the Democrat party whilst Prescott was big in the Republicans.

Prescott Bush advised Eisenhower to run for President and then Richard Nixon for Vice President. He was a major financer of Nixon's presidential campaign against Kennedy. Prescott Bush was an avid JFK opponent and Nixon has always been a puppet for the interests of the Bush family. Many people in G W Bush's govt had ties to Nixon such as Cheney and Rumsfeld, and Nixon also gave G H Bush several plum jobs.

I could go on and on, there are many more ties to Bay of Pigs, Watergate, Nixon, Ford, Bush 1, 2 & 3, people who constantly pop up like David Sanchez Morales and several others who always seem to be involved in Bay of Pigs, Dallas, Watergate. All 3 are connected. So are other things like the RFK shooting. This all culminates into 911.

Mort

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Great post mort, I have seen the picture of bush on jesse ventura conspiracy program, it does look similar and they also show a picture of supposedly three tramps that were dressed too good to be tramps. one of the tramps they claim was a cia agent and was involved in the plot to kill jfk, his son (cia agent) made an audio cassette on his fathers death bed, where this guy claims he was part of the conspiracy and was proud of it, I really don't know what to believe about it but the picture of the tramp and the cia agent are also similar.

frankyscouse

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21 Feb 2013 16:18:45
Well if you think about it him and his old man have killed more people than any body else.
W

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21 Feb 2013 17:12:16
Franky yes the three hobo's are another strange curious case from a day of strange things. I think they do feature in the Costner film. I need to go look something up. Mort

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Franky yes the tramps looked to clean and well dressed to be proper tramps.

Here's the dodgy bit, they were arrested and taken down the cop shop, as admiited at the Warren Commision. But the arrest records have "vanished"

Also people have looked at the photo's:

"by the late 1970s, conspiracist "researchers" had identified at least five of the three. The first tramp in line was thought to be Thomas Vallee, or Frank Sturgis (of Watergate fame) or Daniel Carswell. The second tramp in line was identified as either Sturgis or Carswell. The last tramp was "identified" as E. Howard Hunt or Fred Chrisman. "

However apparently the tramps were tracked down in the 90's see this site for details:

mcadams. posc. mu. edu/3tramps.htm

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Wow thanks Mort quality post! If that is him then that's bad news! I know why it wasn't investigated due to who he was but you would think someone would have investigated this with today's technology and all! Like face recognition or something along them lines I know the government have the ability to use all resources to be able to locate people!

RR!

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I have read a fair amount about JFK, his life and death, for anyone looking for other information have a look here. The link is keeping in line with the thread but the site is a good source for anyone interested in the subject.

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/bush.htm

Padawan.

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I don't think any of the tramps are real, the guy with the hat on is supposedly cia.

frankyscouse

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22 Feb 2013 11:20:21
Padawan that's a good site to use, lots of fascinating stuff. Certainly opened my eyes when I got to the Bush's. Most

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21 Feb 2013 00:38:06
Just watched my favourite film V for Vendetta! If you haven't seen definatley worth a watch! Puts an interesting twist on Guy Fawkes and how governments control country's! I think a lot of the subjects raised could so easily be true!

RR! {Ed001's Note - I agree, excellent film. Speaking of good conspiracy type films, have you seen Cleanskin?}

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No is it worth a watch? I believe most thing in V like the epidemics being produced by government only for them to benefit by producing the cure and selling it for billions! Wasn't it proved Aids was man made?

RR! {Ed001's Note - very worth a watch, well I thought it was good anyway. Certainly a very interesting storyline, and related to subjects often discussed on here. Yes, Aids was, or certainly claimed to be and there was no real dispute to the claims.}

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It scares me to think Ed that V is based on 2015 which is 2 years away and the way our country is now could so easily go down that route of Marshall law being called curfew's in place! I'll defo give it a watch ed love anything that opens your eyes! I'll let you know what I think!

RR! {Ed001's Note - we aren't far off V, that is very true. Last year's riots showed they can easily stir up trouble to bring in curfews and marshal law.}

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Exactly ed! With the hike on prices for fuel, food, clothing and other Essential items and employment at its highest there backing us into a corner where we only have on choice but to rebel! One person will step in with a solution and 99% of the people will fall in line because they believe there is no other choice whilst the other 1% will still push for the truth! I wonder why people think I'm crazy! :)

RR! {Ed001's Note - crazy is not a bad thing, Tesla was considered crazy and he was the greatest mind of the 20th century.}

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Very true ed! Anyways i'd rather be classed as crazy than believe everything is as we're told! It still amazes me that people reuse to believe that the people tha make decisions could ever do anything corrupt or something that could potentially hurt or even worse kill us! I'm just glad there are sites like this where people can educate them selves on so many theories and share the information they've gathered over years and years of reading and watching documentaries!

RR! {Ed001's Note - we spend our lives being brought up to think one particular way and never to think for ourselves. All the way through our indoctrination, sorry education system, we are told that this is truth and we are not allowed to question anything presented to us as a fact. Most of those things are, at the very least, debatable, but we are taught not to question, just accept. It is little wonder most people just go along with it. If you do question it or give a different answer to a question, you are ridiculed and told you are wrong. Case in point, my daughter had a question about who invented the pendulum given to her in science. She found a number of different answers to the question, but the one thing that was not in dispute was that the pendulum was in use in ancient China to monitor and detect earthquakes. The question said it was an Italian that invented it, so she asked for my help. I encouraged her to explain in her answer what she had discovered, and why she was querying the question, being as Italy didn't exist until a few thousand years afterwards. All she got was a big red line through her answer and a telling off from her teacher! She was gutted, it really upset her. Now she is afraid to give any answer but the one they are looking for.}

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Wow! You think your daughter would have been rewarded for using her initiative and researching the subject! A little different I know but I remember when I was in primary school I drew a symbol that resembled a swastika! I was 9 and had no idea what this meant or what it represented as far as I was concerned I just drew to Z's crossing over! I was suspended from school and they told my parents that I should get counciling as I would grow up with wrong beliefs! So rather than educate me on what it meant they punished me. This was a roman catholic school! They don't like It when you go against what they want you to learn! At least your daughter knows more than the person that's teaching her!

RR! {Ed001's Note - it is bizarre how quick they are to jump to conclusions, without even asking questions. It is a complete lack of care though, they don't care, they just want an easy life. Most teachers these days are joining because it pays off their student loans and they didn't do well enough to get a well paid job anywhere else. We literally have a whole generation of failures moving into teaching our kids!}

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Couldn't agree more with you ed! That's why it's our job as parents to educate them properly! I know my dad educated me on a lot of subjects that schools are scared to touch! But in your daughters case I don't see what she done wrong! I'd have taken in the evidence and say now cross that out!

RR! {Ed001's Note - the problem is that she has at least 4 more years left at that school after this one. I don't want her to have the same target on her back I had, because I opened my mouth and questioned everything. I hated my time at school, admittedly that wasn't all I hated about it, but it was a significant part of it. I would rather teach her to think for herself while she is at home, and let her be able to just get through school. The teacher involved is well known to be a nasty piece of work, and as she is female I can't just have a quiet 'word' in her ear so to speak!}

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I see what you mean! And your probably right to protect your daughter from being labeled! I'm sure that swastika thing followed me through high school as I was always separated from groups for no reason and put in bottom sets even though my exam results were always above average! Any ways Ed been a quality chat I'm off to bed but thanks for the recommendation and hope
your daughter continues to think for her self! Night Ed

RR! {Ed001's Note - take care mate, hope you enjoy the film!}

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Was not waco one of the reasons it got attacked because they self taught there own children and even had there own religious beliefs? like you guys I hated school as I felt bored never stimulated then made to feel dumb, no doubt if I decided to open a school with alternative teaching it would be shut down. think I will check out the movies after the reds game, RR you are like scarlet pimpernel you are in and out m8, (pardon d pun)

frankyscouse {Ed001's Note - I am not sure what did happen at Waco, I remember watching it on TV and have seen the programs claiming Koresh was some kind of sexual predator. I have never taken the time to do any research to find out the ins and outs though. I certainly wouldn't trust the stuff the media said.}

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OI! Teacher! Leave thos kids alone.
What we need is a more positive education system about life and economics, on a slightly different note the amount of younger kids (not all) that I've employed who've gained an A, B or C in maths and don't understand basic rules of economics is strange.
An education with basic fundamentals of working towards what we need rather than what we want.

Supasub

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That’s just the thing, we have teachers not qualified to teach the youth of today. It can be very frustrating for the kids. I was always top student but near the end of schooling years I got bored with the Mundane geography, English. History was my bag but over say the last 6-7 months what I thought I knew about history is wrong, thanks to Lloyd Pie and this site (cheers Eds) and the posters on here. All very insightful and if you put the missing pieces together you can get a proper drift of where we really come from and what the governments are really up to. JFK, Bigfoot, Samarians good job to all you Eds and Posters, the next generation does have a hope.
Regards, Garbo

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The reasons the authorities claimed he was abusing physically children under age sex and cult beliefs, koresh by all reports by from camp members did have sex with minors under the age of consent, plus he could have sex with anyone in the camp and just him, strangely they all agreed to it, in fact I will send you all to the link I have read with a camp david insider who done a Q and A interview a few years later and you can make up your own mind. no doubt koresh should have been charged regardless of consent with minors and dealt with but this siege had nothing to do with under age sex.
here is the link.

http://reason.com/archives/1999/10/04/what-happened-at-waco

frankyscouse

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Hey Franky regarding your post on alternatetive teaching the Govt. sota have made that impossible as you can't get a job if you don't have a leaving cert or more recently if you don't have a college degree seems rather unfair if you ask me!

Heskeyfenwa

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Haha scarlet pimpanel I like it! To be honest frankie just not had time had so much going on at home but things have calmed down now so should be on a lot more!

RR!

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Good point heskey and welcome back RR.

frankyscouse

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Really enjoyed reading this thread, and it reminded me of one of my own experiences at primary school. During a Religious Education lesson which consisted of my teacher reading Genesis - I politely put up my hand and asked quite innocently "so what about the dinosaurs?"

The only answer I received was a tirade of abuse from my teacher who called me a troublemaker!

I was so upset (I was 8) that I stayed pretty quiet for the next few years, until I left for secondary school. And even then I never really had the confidence to ask the questions that I ask now.
I didn't question anything.
What was the point?

I had an English teacher reading Genesis who rather than answer a genuine question about religion and the origin of man, told me off and sent me from the room.

I feel slightly short changed regarding my education and the arrogance of the education system. (Not just for this incident but for several others as well)

Great Tesla reference as well Ed001 - how many other great minds will be ignored because they don't conform?

Joe {Ed001's Note - it is worrying how badly our education system has failed, and yet they have still managed to make it worse!}

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The way I look at it Joe it was due to instances like all of the above that make us question things and I believe it made me want more information. I try to deal only in fact as this can't be questioned! Like eds daughter found out I reckon the Chinese invented a lot more than they are given credit for! I mean they are one of the oldest civilisations! But what happens in our lives makes us the people that we are and if they never happened and our answers, questions and evidence were taken onboard and discussed then most of us wouldn't be on this site! It's due to these people that we crave answers we crave the truth so In a weird way I'm glad they did that to me!

RR!

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