Conspiracy Talk Archive May 24 2013

 

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24 May 2013 22:23:04
i understand the anger of the EDL but they have no idea how our society works. they think the upper and middle classes actually give a dam about their lives. if the ruling classes gave a dam about them they would feel sorry for creating drug infested crime ridden areas for them to live in, they don't. the EDL think the police and army sympathise with them, but if they started a civil war their the ones who would be fighting them. you can not beat the system. its the same system that put little kids to work in mines and mills. politics is a soap opera played out in front of us to make us believe we have choices but we don't. nothing changes because its not suppose to. this countries a mess because most people only care about prem football corrie who jordans seeing and how peter andre is getting on. when working class people get angry because they actually care about what's going on the full weight of the establishment goes against them. they just can't see it

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Good post mate, I could be totally wrong on this one and I do not want to stereotype a nation but with all this crazy stuff this week, does anyone else think it is going to kick off in london tomorrow night? two german clubs who have fractions of the far right movement, put that in the mix with the edl and also the far right in this country it could be a tinderbox, I hope I am wrong but I have a bad feeling about this weekend something is going to go off and it is going to trigger around the country.

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Listen most of that post I agree with but the reply we could have done without. mindless people do mindless things. its upto the strongest minded people to do things right and that rules everyones government out. we got to think how do we live in soceity's like this. don't blame religion, its how all governments work they get at the weak to do there dirty work.

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You lost me, who mentioned religion?my reply was a gut feeling that's all.

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I didn't say u said religion I was putting that out ther before someone would actually come out and say that these muslims these christians or otherwise done this or that

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Franky we fight for the same trifle but in diff ways

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In what way?

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Hopefully my last post does not happen, a lovely sunny day here in liverpool out for a few drinks till nxt time adios.

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24 May 2013 22:17:59
Just seen 2 members of the FBIs elite counter terrorism unit that were involved in the capture of Dzokhar Tsarneav have died training how to use ropes to exit a helicopter due to "unspecified difficulties" what's your thoughts unfortunate accident or removal of possible whistleblowers something else? Doesn't really add up not heard much about it on the news surely 2 Counter Terrorost Agents who captured the Boston bombing would get some sort of Heros Grievance in the States It happened at the weekend and I heard nothing of it before the London Tragedy have I just missed this or has it not really been big news before Wednesday looks kinda swept under the carpet to me?

Rise & Shine

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Yeah, seen that a few days ago mate and forgot to post it with all the stuff here.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/05/fbi-agents-died-fall-helicopter-va-coast

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24 May 2013 22:13:25
{Ed001's Note - if that was true, why is the missing link seen as the 'Holy Grail' of researchers? It is not easily identified, simply because we have yet to find the missing link, or any actual links. You are talking complete fiction. I have no idea where you have got your nonsense from, but it is certainly not true. }

Do you believe in these links ed because they say we are 2 genes or something away from monkeys. Yet I think we are also 2 genes away from being a dolphin so I feel these area false ideology to explain something that can't be explained simply.

Kopping a feel

Ps- I believe we are a race that has been to such advancements before then recycled by earth when something ( maybe Nibiru or a higher civilisation) decides we are a threat to ourselves or the earth itself. {Ed001's Note - I don't know mate, I am keeping an open mind on the subject, the knowledge we have available does not give us a clue either way. It is, at the moment, all conjecture, with so many theories, none of which can actually be positively ruled out. Hopefully I will live to see us find out for sure which one is correct, but I am not holding my breath!}

Believable0 Unbelievable0

Hi Ed, I think your reply was in relation to my original post.

There is very little interest in finding 'the missing link' as you call it. There are gaps in the fossil records all teh way along primate evolution, however the jumps between the gaps are by no means extreme in evolutionary terms.

Recent human ancestral admixture is becoming elucidated rapidly, the genome sequencing of a a variety of proposed admixed hominids, including the Neanderthals and the Denisovans.

Describing the missing link as the "Holy Grail" isn't really reprentitive of any benefit it will confer to us, we have short gaps early in hominid separation, but these gaps are no more evolutionary broad than say the gaps between chimpanzee divergence from the less complex New World monkeys, and certainly not as big as the divergence between Old & New World monkeys.

My point is that there are indescribable amounts of "missing links" for every organism that exists. Most of these represent gaps that make the Hominid gaps insignificant. A more pressing question is the route of formation of multicellular eukaryotes, that is the real "holy grail" in the evolutionary phylogenetics.

ForzaRed {Ed001's Note - if you say so, but you are talking nonsense, there is a huge interest in finding the missing link. It is the one thing that could prove Darwin correct, without it, no matter all the nonsense you typed, which is just long words for the sake of trying to sound clever, rather than actually having any real need for them, evolution will remain sketchy and unproven. Your talk of other gaps being the same, well that is just as much of a problem, rather than making it less of a problem. Those gaps need to be filled, or the argument will remain a viable one that someone, or something, was meddling. No one is saying that the missing link is representative of any benefit, so I have no idea why you even brought that into the conversation, it is completely irrelevant. Seems you might have missed the whole point of the previous conversation in an attempt to prove your intellect, because you are completely missing the point. If anything you have backed up all the arguments against evolution, and for intelligent design, by pointing out the huge gaps in the evolutionary chain. Ones which could be taken to suggest someone had given evolution a little push, if that is your belief. Certainly it does nothing to dispel that particular belief at all.}

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The "missing link" doesn't exist as a gap where something unexplained suddenly arose, it just exists as a gap in the fossil record. There are no human genes that are so different from higher primates that we have no idea how they arose. In fact most of the gene differences originally noticed are easily explainable as they involve changes that are in line with genetic processes that we have a very good understanding of.


Ed001 you can never prove evolution in the manner you mention, because there is no quantifiable method of constructing genomes of every single species that has diverged since the beginning of life.

I agree there is no scientifically falsifiable method of demonstrating the entire process, but you cannot reject the process on this premise, then accept a story of creation while ignoring the premise you rejected the previous theory on.

ForzaRed {Ed001's Note - again you miss the point completely, I never said anything about believing in either theory. I just said you can't discount either and you jumped in with a bunch of long words claiming you can. Oh and your first paragraph is wrong, we only theoretically have a very good understanding of it. Due to us having incomplete records, we could easily find all we thought we knew was completely wrong, as usual. Just like carbon dating, which is still accepted as a dating method, even though it is little more than guesswork, and has had to be revised due to finding out what we thought we knew was not true at all. Anyone saying science 'knows' anything is talking crap. Science is mostly theories, beliefs, similar to religion, but based on having some kind of proof, but not complete and total proof. Usually it will be shreds, just like evolution, which are then linked together using a postulation by someone who is an expert in one field but lacks any kind of knowledge in most others and so their theories are, at best, suspect, until other fields can explore the theory and, almost without exception, alter it to suit what they find, as the original theory is never quite right. Until scientists stop being so specialised in small areas, we will continue to have this problem, as they are incapable of seeing the whole picture. Until we know everything, our theories are always going to have holes in them and will have to be based on supposition and logic to fill in the blanks. Unfortunately nature doesn't give a damn for logic!}

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24 May 2013 19:49:48
Evening Folks,
I knew this tragedy which occurred in Woolwich would create lots of conflicting views, and have been keeping an eye on this page to read the views. Personally, I do not think it was a 'false-flag' but that's just my opinion.

I have friends of different religions, from different countries throughout the world, Americans, Czechs, English, Australians, Mexican, and Poles to name a few. I used to travel about a fair bit in my early twenties and got to meet lots of amazing people.

I have learned that critically thinking people are most definitely the minority. I have my views on certain events throughout history, and always seem to cause a stir among my friends. They all can't seem to comprehend the thought of any governments causing havoc amongst it's citizens for their own personal gain.

When I mention how the Military Industrial Complex works, or the oil companies, or the Federal Reserve, things like that, I can always guarantee a snigger from any corner of the room. I won't claim to be the most articulate of people and can sometimes struggle to get everything into one argument without beginning to run away with my thoughts.

Anyway enough of the rambling, I just wanted to have a little say on this current subject. What happened was terrible and I really feel for that soldier and his family. I have seen things on other social networks, some from friends, and some from people I just know about town or from school years ago.

Some are beyond reason, stating things like 'all those Islamists should be nuked'. 'dump them in the sea with Bin Laden' (thought that one was funny). 'how can these people act like this?'. 'our troops try and bring democracy to their sh*tholes'. 'we try and civilise their counties and this is what we get?'.

Many more but I don't want to type them as much as I'm sure you don't want to read. This my friends is what's wrong with society today, way too many people have sucked in this media spin on the 'war on terror' and how the so called 'Superpowers' are only trying to help other unfortunate countries. These extremists have been created by other countries getting involved in their own countries affairs. I am far from religious, and hope I don't come across as racist, but if the likes of Britain and America didn't invade the Middle-East or Africa, maybe, just maybe things like this wouldn't happen.

Soldiers, troops, peace-keepers, what-ever you like to call them, in my eyes aren't heroes, unless they're guarding their own countries, not jumping in a ship or plane and wrecking other places. Well, I already regret posting this, as I have had a few too many drinks already (wife and kids are away for the day/night). I hope what point I am trying to get across will be found in here somewhere.

Believable9 Unbelievable1

Good post mate it pretty much how I feel, the soldiers are just pawns in a chess game and they are brave men and women, like you I feel I am the minority close friends and family on facebook at this moment in time I think would gladly like to see every muslim shipped off or worse.
one thing I do agree with though is a eye for a eye, murderers who intentionally take a life of another should be hanged the same goes for pedos.

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How in your opinion are troops anywhere in the world bringing democracy to the people. the only people being attacked are the people who are so called bringing democracy to countries they have no right to do. black gold is chief criteria for 95% of wars, so wake up man and listen to the chimes of reason. why any country interferes with anothers culture there will allways be boodshed. definingly america, uk, france, russia, germany to name a few have the biggest bloodshed on ther hands and he we are talking bout 1 man when they have butchered 1000,000,000s seems a bit unjust to me

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If you read the original post you will see the poster does not mention bringing democray to people. This stupid comment was being made by people he knew, which he disagrees with.
Captain Needa

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I didn't say troops of any kind, bring democracy anywhere? If you read the post again, you will see that I was saying I had read this in other peoples writings.

The word democracy turns my stomach, there's no such thing in my eyes, it's a myth created by political minds. How can anywhere have a democratic government, when we all know the guys that get to run for any position, in any office, are usually financed by corporations.

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24 May 2013 18:04:27
First time poster
Reading the comments of Ryan how and when have the British army killed innocent people.
And how is the woolwich killing a conspiracy.
Explain?

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Ill probably get slated for this but here goes Newo.

The British army, like all other armies kill innocent people every time they go to war. Some say that's the unavoidable price of war but on many occasions innocents are killed out of rage or fear and also just for the "fun of it". While many cases may go undocumented or are simply hidden you need only search for 'Bloody Sunday' or 'Baha Mousa' to see that innocents were and still are killed by the British Army. It happens constantly, although I do think it is more prevalent among US troops, for whatever reason. There are even videos from 2007 of British Soldiers beating kids. Add in the so called 'Private Contractors' and the whole situation is even worse. If Blackwater thugs are free to kill then maybe Soldiers feel they are only doing what is allowed. On top of this it's without doubt that both the US and UK Governments have been systematically involved in torture for many years now. The whole situation is a complete mess and I don't necessarily blame those who believed they were doing good by defending their countries. The Governments who sent these, in most cases teenagers, to fight an unlawful war are to blame, in my opinion.

Captain Needa

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Was that a question aimed at me Neo? Did I say the British army killed innocent people? Really? Please show me where I said that.

Explain?

Ryan.

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25 May 2013 18:03:05
It was a conspiracy, 2+ people were involved.
Liono74

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@ original post
Bloody Sunday!

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24 May 2013 17:50:28
To the unnamed poster blaming the media for spinning it as terrorism the definition of terrorism is
the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims

Now apart from sheer lunacy that sums up Wednesdays events the murderer swore by Allah that they would never stop fighting us our children will be killed In the streets like In his land which he's probably never been too before so isn't the real evil the ones who are converting these young men?

If we converted there kids To christianity or a Innocent Asian was killed in the streets London would be burning right now that's the problem we need to act or I fear for our land and I am not saying violence is the answer but there is no place for people who hate every single one of us in our own country for what Obama, Clinton, Blair Cameron & all there cronies have done to them and again I am not talking about all Muslims some are great people infact my local newsagent was in the other night there cooking me
Up his own curry recipe it was the best I've ever tasted before anyone brands me a racist!


Rise & Shine

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24 May 2013 18:04:17
Is there any video footage of the attackers using allahs name?
Liono74

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Yes the full video of the murderer infront of the camera he says "I swear by almighty Allah we will not stop fighting you, this soldiers life is an eye for an eye a tooth for tooth then mutters something in Muslim that's where the video from the news starts and he says something about many many ayah of the Quran says we need to fight them as they fight us something like that anyway mate.

Rise & Shine

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24 May 2013 21:14:18
Does he quote the bible at any point?
Liono74

{Ed033's Note - He's a muslim

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Does he quote the bible at any point, you sir are priceless.

Kopping a feel

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I did not know there was a language called Muslim. My god (sorry for the pun), their ignorance knows no bounds!

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25 May 2013 03:07:11
"an eye for an eye" is taken from the bible, leviticus I believe. So I guess these guys were christian extremists after all? My original point was everybody was up in arms because of the language used by the media. Have we not learned that these guys will spin the news to help whatever branch of the government is most concerned? It doesn't matter if they were hardcore muslims or even if they were moonies, what does matter is it will be used to reduce everyones freedom, and that is the truly evil part of what happened in woolich. Its not terrorists I fear its ignorance and intolerance. That, at the end of the day is what places walls between us.
Liono74

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Why can't you accept that the mans Muslim mate go on Liveleak watch the video for yourself he quotes the Quran. I've seen pictures of him standing behind Anjem Choudray at one of there protests.

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25 May 2013 18:15:00
My point is, he also quotes the bible. Its not that I don't think he is muslim, its how hardline he is. It doesn't sound like he is part of a terrorist cell. A hardline muslim would never quote the bible whilst being recorded. Anyway it seems you have completely missed the original point that it doesn't matter what his religion is, its going to be used to take away more of our civil liberties.
P. s. I can't believe the edl is getting out its pram and targeting mosques and other peaceful muslims. Are they being told to make a big deal out of this. We are being led to a very dark place, if we are not careful the attack in woollich could be the tip of the iceberg.
Liono74

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What are you you on about, "how hardline he is"?

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26 May 2013 14:11:29
Not all muslims are extremists. It isn't a black and white issue, so to speak.
Liono74

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Liono74 is clearly caught up on a technicality.

Eye for an eye is a popular turn of phrase. I didn't even know it was from the bible. I am not and have never been a Christian and I use the phrase regularly. It's nothing more than a coincidence. {Ed001's Note - it is nothing to do with Christianity anyway, it is Judaism, and followed by Islam. “In the Torah We prescribed for them a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, an equal wound for a wound: if anyone forgoes this out of charity, it will serve as atonement for his bad deeds. Those who do not judge according to what God has revealed are doing grave wrong.” (Qurʾān 5:45)}

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24 May 2013 14:54:36
listening to glen beck online now and some stuff I agree with and a lot I do not agree with but he brought up a valid point, he said why would it take one women to stop a bus and go to the victim, why was there no men seeing that done to a victim and just watched, why?are they all sheep?then he said would that have happened in past generations?now I will openly admit a guy with a gun and knives I know for a fact I am not getting involved unless it is a family or friend member, but I think beck has a point on this subject I think our forefathers would have confronted these killers which could be why this generation morals are going to the gutter.

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The woman who approached the men is an person. a man would never approach 2 men who just killed a man for a casual chat, men would have tried to take them on but armed with a gun and knives and the fact of what they had just done the men would have sized up the risk and sensibly stayed away.

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I agree with the reply there very brave woman, it's more likely the young men of this country to stand back & video a murderer to post it on YouTube!

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GOD the bloke asked to be videotaped so it will be shown around the world, these things are done for other extremists to see. He asked others including men to do the same.

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24 May 2013 11:52:56
Why is there no blood on the road, when apparently the victim was stabbed and hacked multiple times and then dragged across the road as all the witnesses have said. Nor is there any blood on the clothing of either nutter. It's not scientifically possible for there to be no blood spillage on the clothes after hacking and attempting to behead a man, or for there not to be any blood on the floor.

The witnesses and the media are spinning a story. A poor young man was killed by a car collision and his death is being used to ignite a war. This young soldier would not want anyone to be taking revenge on other poor innocent souls. It's time to wake up when you're being sold a story by the media ala 'WMD's and 'terror threat'.

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Ok this is just getting sick they didn't properly behead the poor guy he was definately hacked at with bloody meat clever & blade people have witnessed this with there own eyes. He wasn't just ran over

looking for a conspiracy when it's not there is just sickening there are Videos on LL of the men being shot they were definately shot there in that same street I have studied all this. There is a full video of the murderers interview & he knew exactly what he was doing he knew that lad was a soldier he states that. He swears by almighty Allah that they will not stop fighting us that it will be our men & children who die in our streets it was a disgusting vile act of insanity in the middle of London stop clutching at straws il admit its hard to see the blood stains where he was dragged on any other shot apart from the birds eye view helicopter photo but that is not enough evidence to prove this was a false flag or a hoax it has sickened me to my stomach & filled me with Rage that nothing will be done about this our government & police force are far too scared to combat muslim extremism.

They let them shove their Islamic ways daily down our throats but anyone who opposes is a Racist Fascist pig. Tommy Robinson might not have all his facts right but he has the right ideas. To get back to my point though the only way the Gov is at any blame here is the way we have treated innocent people in the Middle East and everyone agrees that they'd rather leave them to it & bring our troops home but it won't happen! Britain's Muslim communities need a strong Leader type to guide them away from these extreme ways.

The public even the EDL need to eradicate these terror threats that we as a nation are terrified from everyday of our lives. I am not a racist and do not condemn the Muslim Religion but if u want to live in this country it should be made sure that it is only practiced properly and harmlessly. Now i'll probably get slagged here because I'm not the sharpest tack but I fear for our once great country. the media is brainwashing us all through a corrupt government that there needs to be a war on terror but it needs to be right here on our own soil before anymore innocent Brits & Muslims are killed in cold blood.

Can you just stand back and watch after Wednesdays events I know I can't. I am going to work tirelessly to bring peace to our country within all races we need to wake up & see the greed that is ruining every working class man & woman's lives while these **** get richer off our backs and pretend to care while blaming us for everything!

Rise & Shine

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Is this the unnamed poster or someone else? can you sign off with the same nick name or initials so we know who we are replying to?

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24 May 2013 13:36:03
Omg how deluded are you.

Firstly there was blood smear on the street

Secondly there was blood all over the clothing

This soldier served the queen and crown protecting every single one of us in some way yet you show the total disrespect of spinning utter nonsense like this.

You should be ashamed

Jamie

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I'm no doctor and I gather neither are you, however I would have thought it depends on when he died on how much blood loss there would be, not saying that anyone is right or wrong just that post mortem blood loss would be a lot less.

Having looked at the pictures online the guy in black does have some blood on his top and around the pockets however with it being a dark top it would not show up much, I did however have questions over the other guy because his jacket is light and from the photographs online there does not appear to be any blood which is odd.

Jonty

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So u didn't see the blood trail from the wall along the pavement to the road? I'm pretty sure he would have died quite fast, his heart would have stopped, thus no blood pumping through his body, that would explain no pool of blood in the road where he lay. The rat that talked to the camera was covered in blood. His knives covered in blood. His jacket was dark, blood would had just soaked into the dark. To even question this attack as a false flag borders on insanity my disturbed friend.

GBI

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Perhaps I was mistaken and the poor fellow was indeed hacked to death, and yes I am not a doctor but a Physicist, so the human body and how it functions is not my forte. I am never one to accept what I'm told without my own reasoning, which in this case was perhaps flawed. If I offended anyone with my thoughts then I apologise, I am just sick of the anti-muslim/anti-immigrant brigade that is gaining exponential support because of the actions of 2 nutters. We cannot lower ourselves to their levels and promote because hatred it's exactly what these nutcases would like.

What I think the the government needs to do now is bring back hanging and put to death these 2 persons, Abu Qatada, Abu Hamza, Omar Bakri, Anjem Choudhury and any other sick individual or groups that promote and preach the hatred of others in this great nation of ours and we must not get involved in other nations wars including Syria. Only then will we see a decrease in the radicalisation of young muslim men and society returning to normal.

Uriah

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The 2 attackers, I am led to believe, were british born and brought up christian. The real evil in this situation is the media for spinning this as terrorism. They have started to oversell the climate of fear we are supposedly living in. The next 2 years they will begin to get desperate and more of this will happen, as people aren't reacting in a way that suits their needs. Now is a time to not overreact or focus on the minutiae, level heads will prevail. They will make mistakes.
Liono74

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Liono74 - Yes the two men were British and were Christian but real evil isn't the media its the people that are brainwashing young british men to make them think that this is right and this is something that they need to do.

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Sorry forgot to sign off
RedLeigh9

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24 May 2013 09:25:26
I feel compelled to write about the general direction that this site has taken recently. I have for years enjoyed coming on here and reading theories about, mainly historical, conspiracies where there was a wide variety of opinions based on primary, literary, internet sources, occassionally contributing.

However recently there seems to be a common culture from some of the regular posters cranking the irrational paranoia up to 11. Any crank who posts a video on youtube is now instantly hailed as a credible source of the truth, yes some of them make some excellent points but taking a diametrically opposed view to the government/authorities/intelligence services doesn't automatically make it right. Anytime there is some atrocity in the news we instantly have pseudo experts on here stating categorically that "this was definitely false flag" Was it? or do you mean that is your opinion or summation?

Similarly political opinion is becoming more prevalent and extreme. I understand how politics has a bearing in many conspiracies but posters now just stating how much they hate/ed a politician or party is not relevant. Of course it's your right to hold that opinion but it is sometimes so simplistic and out of context for the content of this page. Right wing = bad and Left wing = good is not always the case, as the millions starved to death in China and the USSR under communism show. Last night we even had someone demanding that religion be banned - should we just ban free speech, freedom of thought, freedom of expression unless it fits with your views?

I fully expect to be shouted down on this view but I feel that the opinions are getting more extreme and biaised and that anyone with a different view is essentially told they are being manipulated.
CBP {Ed001's Note - I personally agree with you, I do argue with my friends who are religious over their beliefs, but I would never ever want them stopped from having their beliefs. If nothing else, how do you know your view is correct if you have no opposite view to challenge it constantly? Which is where our current political system fails miserably, as there is no real left and right, they are all just various shades of right these days. By the way, what the USSR and China refer to as Communism is not true Communism anyway, that ideology will never work because of human nature.}

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Cbp this site is opinion based, none of us really know the truth, for all I know everything I believe in could be bs but it is just my take on it.
as for people with a different view to me or anyone else then we can debate the pros and cons of a subject, there has been many a time when I have rethought a certain topic because someone has made a valid point,
the same as edd I have put my views across to my mates and to be honest on the whole they think I over exaggerate lol but now instead of saying there is a agenda to take your liberties away by the nwo I just say now its another way to tax you, which works lol.
to me this site we learn and share stuff for example the new energy meters they are trying to introduce, now if anyone tries to install one in my home can expect a f. o or worse, that just is one of many examples and to people who do not have the same beliefs as many of us more power to you it is a free world (erm its not, sorry could not help that)

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24 May 2013 09:21:53
Much respect Ed001 not trying to brownnose here haha, but am I suppose. Your reply To Jay about democracy and such in my opinion hit the nail on the head for me, even though the country in which I live is not to my knowledge Involved in the wars at the moment. I am ashamed of what we have done here in the past, apartheid, or should I say my father and forefathers, as I was very young. Still ashamed and feel guilty, but guilt needs to come from feeling you are responsible or knowledge you are responsible. Am I brainwashed I wonder sometimes. It almost seems the world is headed into an apartheid system, with everyone hating each other so much that we want to be segregated from everyone different for ourselves. {Ed001's Note - I do feel that we are being pushed into hatred for each other, and it has been going on for years. Not just Muslims and non-Muslims, but all sorts of multiple hatreds for anyone who isn't just like you, which is of course everyone else. Divide and conquer.}

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