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19 Jul 2014 15:30:54
I have a question, I am not the most politically minded person, so can some explain this Gazza/Israel business please, I'd like to know both the "official" story and the real one, all I know is that Israel claim to be victims even though they're the ones doing the slaughtering people and I saw an Israeli citizen in an interview saying he doesn't care what Israel's aim is as long as they achieve it. Explain this madness.
1.) Israel was formed by Britain promising some Zionist Jews some part of Palestine. They took over and the Palestinians obviously tried to fight back. Before all this happened Palestine was mostly Muslim but had jews living together in harmony! Then there has been 2-3 wars and Israel has been taking more and more land from them illegally!
Israel control the sea the borders of Palestine they don't let anything such as raw materials or anything into Palestine most gets smuggled in such as building materials, certain foods etc. Palestinians are not allowed to move freely etc. Israeli forces are at every part of Palestine and when they get confronted or Palestine fight back, Israel tries to make it out as though they are defending themselves but the truth is, Israel is doing to the Palestinians what the nazi did to the jews!
Most Jews are against this but it's the Zionist Jews who are doing all this! God bless the Palestinians and the good news because these zionists are going to start world war!
2.) It's incredibly unjust what has happened to Palestine and it's people.
Following WW2 and the holocaust, which was obviously one of the most horrific and horrendous atrocities in human history, many Jews found themselves without a home.
The newly formed United Nations decided to "create" Israel (or re-create Israel if you believe the bible) by dividing Palestine, and relocating Jews to the area.
It so happens that Jews and Muslim Palestinians had lived side by side in the region for centuries, with no conflict.
Ever since, Israel have been further encroaching Palestinian lands, taking more and more. Palestinian agriculture has suffered and they struggle to survive as a result. Import is limited or non-existent. The Israelis have better infrastructure, education, medicine etc. whilst Palestinians are treated as second class citizens.
We see lots about Israel, Palestine, Gaza etc. on the news daily, yet I'm baffled at how it's reported. It's not a conflict. Its not a war. Let's call it what it is: apartheid.
Having said that, I personally don't believe that it's motivated purely by religion. I refer to the fact that Muslims and Jews lived side by side before the UN sanctioned Israel a Jewish state
It's important to remember that Israel benefit from billions in foreign aid from the US. Most of it in the form of military assistance
3.) Check out this animation for the basics on Israel and Palestine
http://youtu.be/9jKVQyPgJCw
4.) 20 Jul 2014 13:46:52
In 1947 the UN mandate created Israel by partitioning Palestine into Jewish and muslim areas. The Israelis accepted the deal. The Palestinians didn't and went running to their neighbours, Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq asking for help in throwing the Jews into the sea and vowing to finish what hitler started. The arabs lost wars in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973. The arab coalition became disillusioned with military failure and one by one made peace with Israel. The Palestinians increasingly resorted to terrorist tactics. Indeed Arafat was related to the Grand Mufti who was a big hitler supporter.
This is the reason the Israelis built the wall, since building it how many buses or cafes have been blown up by suicide bombers. None. All that's left is aimless rocket attacks.
If the Palestinians accept the state of Israel (something they have not done - its been a reality for almost 70 years) and stop trying to fight an unwinnable fight we would a step nearer a solution. The rest of the region (with the exception if the mullah's in Iran) accepted political reality decades ago.
If this happened then it would be easier to get a proper Palestinian state. And they could concentrate on trying to build a future. However the Israelis also have to bend, they have to allow the Palestinians to rebuild, they also have to abandon the illegal settlements and return that land.
I do not for one second agree or condone what the Israelis are doing. No one wants to see pictures of dead children. Both sides have to bend though and this once and for all. It doesn't help when Hamas reject ceasefires brokered by Cairo. Israel should never have committed ground forces and this is to be condemned.
I'm Russian by birth and an EU citizen by nationality so I have no particular allegiance to either side.
Kim Philby
5.) Kim - you say you have no allegiance but your comment comes across as very sympathetic towards Israel. How can you say it's the Palestinians who are the ones dragging this war on? As far as I'm concerned it was their land and they have the right to defend it. How would any of us like it if someone just came and took our house and we had to 'accept it'?
6.) 22 Jul 2014 22:03:03
Being Russian, I've known a few Jewish people, seen the effects of state persecution on them so yes I am probably more sympathetic towards them. They can argue forever and a day over who was there first. But the arabs started this mess off back in 48. And a lot of todays problems of Islamic fundamentalist terrorism date back to this. And again being Russian I've had experience of this as have we all. It tends to limit your sympathy, especially given Hamas set up in civilian areas fire rockets and pull out before the Israeli response leaving their own civilians to get killed as its good propaganda. They are nothing but pathetic cowards.
Kim Philby
{Ed001's Note - and the Israelis are so big and brave they are burning alive innocent children? The Arabs started nothing, the Israelis started the problems by forcibly taking land by force of arms and being allowed to do so. This is nothing to do with Judaism, so shut up with your clear bias about it. This is nothing to do with religion, it is one group of people hiding behind religion to steal land using violence and people like you are making up excuses for them. Hamas hiding behind civilians? What a crock of imbecilic nonsense! Palestine does not have an army, they don't have anything but civilian areas. Israel on the other hand don't have civilians, they just have soldiers and soldiers out of uniform. So I have no sympathy with them. If you are going to use force to get your desires then it is going to led to this. The Israelis know full well they could get a propaganda victory by not retaliating but they are happy to use the excuse to kill more people. I don't care if they are Jewish or not, what they have done is wrong and they are continuing to make the situation worse to suit their own ends. The last thing they want is peace, they would then lose their foreign aid, as the West only helps them to keep the whole Middle East unbalanced.
I do agree though, the disgusting acts of the Israeli state are mainly responsible for the rise of Islamic fundamentalist terrorism, but then the whole state of Israel was founded by Jewish fundamentalist terrorists, so what do you expect? The state of Israel was founded by terrorists, is run by terrorists and is still a terrorist state, regardless of who recognises it or who doesn't. Until the day they stop shooting first and asking questions later there will never be peace, and it is not the fault of the Arabs at all.
Both sides need to want peace before there can be peace, Israel have backed Hamas into a corner, and they have done it deliberately. They have created such hatred, that Hamas are now unable to accept any kind of peace terms without losing power. Every arms dealer in the world is happy as Larry to see it, as they can continue to sell them huge quantities of munitions to fight with. Israel is happy because they still have the backing of the US and NATO to allow them to continue slowly settling more and more of their own people in these areas and annexing more land. They are going to do exactly what England did in Northern Ireland and the US did in all the states they annexed. Just keep settling your own people in, so that you eventually tip the balance of population over to your side. Then the UN can demand as many referendums as they want, and all of them will vote to be Israeli. While the ethnic cleansing and genocide of the indigenous population continues apace and nothing will ever get done.}
7.) What right did the UN have to divide Palestine to create the Israeli state?
If Palestine was not happy with it from the start, surely it was best not to give THEIR land away to someone else :/
8.) 23 Jul 2014 11:21:45
I have clearly said I think what Israel has done is wrong. All I did was lay out the facts.
Can I ask you 3 questions
What in your opinion should have been done with the European Jewish refugees, where should they have gone?
What do you think of the ethnic cleansing currently taking place in Syria and Iraq?
Why do you think this isn't being reported in the mainstream media?
Kim Philby
{Ed001's Note - I don't see why they should have had to go anywhere. What was wrong with them just living in the area? Why did they have to have their own segregated country? I think that very question shows how little understanding you have of the area in question, where Muslims, Arabs and Christians had managed to come to a very delicate balance until the Zionists started causing problems.
I really don't see the relevance of that to this issue. A typical Zionist apologist excuse to look to shift focus elsewhere, next you will be reminding me how many Jews were slaughtered by the Nazis, like that has any relevance.
It is clearly not being reported because people have stopped caring about the Middle East. It is only useful to mention when the threat is aimed at Westerners as a way of instilling fear in people to bring in new measures to reduce freedom. Most of the Western peoples really don't care if they kill each other, just like none gave a monkey's about what went on in the Balkans.}
9.) 23 Jul 2014 12:12:21
Well would you stay somewhere where your neighbours turned on you? I can understand them wanting to leave Europe for a new life. Britain and America didn't want them and Palestine being their ancestral home with a large Jewish population made sense to the ordinary refugee.
I asked regards Syria and Iraq as are they not linked? As you say all 3 religions lived in peace for years but now there's ethnic cleansing going on there as well. I'm not trying to justify anything, just making an observation that ethnic cleansing is underway in 3 countries in the region by 2 different groups. But only the actions of 1 group is protested against. Surely we should be protesting the actions of all these guilty of ethnic cleansing.
Kim Philby
{Ed001's Note - but why did they need to create an apartheid state for Jews? Because that is the only reason to create Israel. I never meant staying in Europe, I meant just living there peacefully under the laws that exist. I don't care where they originally came from, it is not their's to just go and boot others out. That would be like the population of Ireland, who are by and large descended from Viking invaders mingling with the indigenous population, moving back to Denmark and booting all the Danes out. It is just not right. If you go back to the land of your forefathers, then you go back to what it has become, not use violence and force to make it what you want.
It may well be that the vile acts of a terrorist state constantly violating international law, namely Israel, is stirring up ill feeling elsewhere. But I don't see how bringing that into the discussion is going to affect the fact that what you were trying to make apologies for in Gaza is completely and utterly wrong. Until Israel stops with its flagrant violations, mass murder, beatings, torture and landgrabs, there will never be any chance of peace in the region. What is going on in Syria and Iraq should be treated separately, it is not the same issue.}
10.) 23 Jul 2014 12:41:44
I did say several times I do not agree with what the Israelis have done. I also said they needed to hand back the land from illegal settlements.
Israel thinks it can do as it likes as it has a powerful backer in the Americans. Russia and China don't care as there is nothing in if for them.
Kim Philby
It was just an accident, video clip shows driver slumped over the wheel, I am very familiar which such vehicles the two passengers no doubt in a state of panic didn't think of the handbrake and from their likely positions in the cab wouldn't have been easy to reach it
Either way we didn't evolve from apes we were always our own species we shared a common ancestor, same way any of us do with our cousins we aren't the same family but we're are related
My belief is that 99% of psychics are con artists, but there are genuine ones out there, how they work, I believe that each human mind is connected like Facebook for example, this great conciousness is God in the religious sense, I think that the genuine psychics are able to access this hence knowing things they normally wouldn't know about people.
I'm sure if they were run for our good we'd have had solar panels 50 years ago along with Tesla's power domes.
Hhmmm interesting idea, what helps the theory would be that she retrieved a bit of his head! Surely when your husband is shot a)thats the last thing you think you should check he's okay and b) why would you do so anyway if it was a part of his head you'd knoew he was gone.
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